Day 015 - 21 Jul 94 - Page 03

     1        sources of fat were different, a greater portion coming
              from dairy products in rural Kuopio and from meat in the
     2        New York Metropolitan area".
     3        Pausing there, if one turns over two pages to page 2,834,
              I think, of this journal, one sees a table; do you see a
     4        table?
              A.  Yes, headed Kuopio and New York.
         Q.   If you look at the figures one sees that for the Finns the
     6        total fat was 96.6 -- what are they?
              A.  Grammes per day.
         Q.   Grammes per day, and in New York it was 99.6.  The Finns
     8        had, I think -- it is a bad copy -- it might be 38.7 or
              might it be 58.7?
     9        A.  It is difficult to make out.
    10   Q.   We will have to get the original copy; the New Yorkers had
              47.7 saturated fats.  But look down at the Finnish diet
    11        and the American diet; if one looks at the Finnish diet
              one sees a lot of cream, a lot of milk and a lot of
    12        butter, does one not?
              A.  That is right.
         Q.   Whereas in the American diet there is beef, margarine,
    14        which may not count, hamburger, boiled or roast beef for
              dinner, potatoes (we do not know what cooked in), slices
    15        of bread, dinner rolls, margarine and so on.  As between,
              let us say, meat in a hamburger (beef) on the one hand,
    16        cream, butter and milk on the other, is there any
              distinction to be drawn, from the nutritional point of
    17        view, between the kinds of saturated fats that those
              substances contain?
    18        A.  There would not be major differences because both are
              coming mainly from cows, cattle.
         Q.   Is the answer this then?  You can just as easily get a
    20        high dosage of saturated fat from butter or cream, is that
              what you mean?
    21        A.  They are both high in saturated fats.
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What is pulla, which they seem to have with
              coffee during a snack?  Is it something you eat or part of
    23        a drink?
    24   MR. RAMPTON:  It is a braided yeast bread; one sees that from
              the breakfast menu.
         MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I see, yes. 
         MR. RAMPTON:  There is a thing called wheat velli, which is 
    27        similar to puuro cooked in milk.  Puuro is a kind of
              porridge made with oat meal, it looks like, does it not?
    28        A.  Yes.
    29   Q.   All, I suppose, sources of fibre as well as the rye bread,
              which one sees the Finns ate at least three times a day,
    30        by the look of it.  Can I go back to the sources of
              saturated fat?  Would both the dairy products and meat

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