Day 060 - 02 Dec 94 - Page 03
1 what is the evidence is touched on, and they say: "Oh,
2 I have read something about that", or "I know of an article
3 about that"; that is happening first of all generally. It
4 is also happening specifically when you have someone like
5 Mr. Hopkins sitting behind you; that is, someone whom you
6 have approached for a statement because he has an interest
7 in a particular area which the case touches on. So, you
8 are getting extra documents generally and you are getting
9 extra documents specifically from people you want to call.
11 In the situation we are in, with you representing
12 yourselves, and with numbers of people who are interested
13 in the case and your side of the case, I accept that just
14 is a fact of life, that is the way things are bound to
15 happen. I do not see why people should not show an
16 interest and provide you with material. So, on that basis,
17 I am sympathetic to the situation, but, granted that, we
18 have to get some method into it; I will not say method into
19 the madness because it is not madness; it is not the way
20 things ordinarily happen.
22 MR. MORRIS: It may be described as madness.
24 MR. JUSTICE BELL: We have to get some method into it, which is
25 why I am taking a stand here. I would like you to think
26 about it, because I do not know what your sources of
27 information and documentation are, and I do not want to
28 ask. What I think you and Ms. Steel have to do at some
29 time, when you have a quiet moment, think: How can we
30 organise this a bit better so that things arising in this
31 impromptu way is kept to a minimum?
33 So, for the time being what I would like to do is, you are
34 going to be cross-examining Mr. Oakley comfortably past the
35 mid-day adjournment?
37 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
39 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I think you ought to come back to this. You
40 can come back to the documents you served yesterday at any
41 time in the light of what Mr. Rampton has said. I think
42 you ought to come back to this after the mid-day
43 adjournment. If I am told then that Mr. Oakley needs to do
44 more than just read this, he needs to make enquiries, then
45 what I would like him to -- I am not suggesting he should
46 say that -- but if you can possibly deal with it this
47 afternoon, well and good. That is what I would like him to
48 do. If there is some difficulty, and he needs to make some
49 further enquiry before he has answered, then he can tell me
50 what that is and I will consider it then.
52 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I was going to add this before Mr. Morris
53 interrupted me. Mr. Morris still does not seem to
54 understand that what is contained in a newspaper article is
55 not evidence.
57 MR. MORRIS: No, but it is cross-examination material.
59 MR. RAMPTON: No, my Lord. May I please finish?
60 Cross-examination material takes two forms. It takes the