Day 094 - 01 Mar 95 - Page 03

     2   Q.   But we have evidence in front of us, never mind -----
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Perhaps you had better ask him to explain
     5        that because to an outsider like me, you see, it might seem
     6        pretty poor, that 95 per cent of the equipment disassembly
     7        checks deserve what I am taking to be some adverse
    10   MR. MORRIS:  Most of them are major and critical.
    12   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  If that is my reaction, it is totally
    13        inconsistent with your answer, so I need you to explain to
    14        me why you answer in the way you do.  Just to take what you
    15        are, no doubt, going to explain is the wrong attitude, if
    16        one got 4.69 marks out of 100, you would fail most exams.
    17        You explain the system so that I can understand your
    18        answer.
    19        A.  OK.  The numbers or compliance -- let me start with the
    20        terminology.  The definition of "minor", "major" and
    21        "critical" has nothing to do with the sanitary
    22        restrictions so that one can draw a conclusion this is an
    23        unsanitary restriction.  That is a statistical system that
    24        is used to measure a performance level.  That is what this
    25        is.  It has nothing to do with HACCP which, I understand,
    26        has been discussed here before.  It is not a critical point
    27        when you are speaking to critical.  These are
    28        non-conformities.
    30        If I could make an analogy of what is the difference
    31        between defects and non-conformity:  If you buy a car, for
    32        instance, and you turn the lights, the headlights, on at
    33        night and they do not work, that is a defect.  The same
    34        car, if the lights are tilted five degrees to what they are
    35        supposed to be to either side, up or down, that is a
    36        non-conformance.  That does not affect significantly the
    37        performance of that car.  That is what this data is telling
    38        you.
    40        If there is a risk to humans, if there is a risk of
    41        cross-contamination, if it actually happens, then the
    42        product is condemned.  An inspector will not let this plant
    43        run, and these are issues that were corrected prior to the
    44        operation.  There is not a single panel or product that
    45        has, according to this data, that has run through the plant
    46        under unsanitary conditions.  The data that you have
    47        provided about consumer complaints, it is incredible.
    48        Nobody, I have never seen anybody as good as that.
    50   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  We are not on that now.  We are on these. 
    52   MR. MORRIS:  So you are saying that when 45 out of 64 tests show 
    53        major non-conformity with standards according to the US DA
    54        on equipment disassembly and 15 out of 64 tests on top of
    55        that show critical, which is the maximum level of
    56        non-conformity, that would not worry McDonald's?
    57        A.  That is correct.  It is not the maximum.
    59   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  It is the maximum on the form, that is the
    60        point?

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