Day 095 - 02 Mar 95 - Page 03

     1        paragraph and the second sentence.
     2        A.  Oh, yes, I have found it, thank you.
     4   MS. STEEL:  It goes on to say lower down:  "The growth promoting
     5        antibiotics, Virginia Mycin and AvoParcin, to which the
     6        Defendants refer can be given to cattle in the USA".  So
     7        that is correct, is it not?
     8        A.  Yes.
    10   Q.   So you would expect those things to be used?  You would not
    11        be surprised if they were being used?
    12        A.  I would not be surprised if they are being used, no.
    14   Q.   In this statement you say that growth promoters and/or
    15        antibiotics used have to be scientifically proven not to
    16        have any harmful effect on humans.  How can they prove,
    17        scientifically prove, that they are not harmful to humans?
    18        A.  The FDA, in conjunction with a lot of health agencies
    19        in the United States, do an extensive research of any
    20        product, any chemical, that is being used or can be used in
    21        the United States.  It is a long process that, on the
    22        average, takes at least five years for the approval
    23        process.  It is studied extensively to much higher levels
    24        at which the product is intended to be used.  If anything
    25        is going to be used on the test, it has to prove that it
    26        will not cause a harmful effect, even if it is ingested by
    27        humans at a rate that is many, many, many times the
    28        intended purpose of its use.  It could be millions of
    29        times.  I have seen research like that.
    31   Q.   So they do do research on humans, do they?
    32        A.  I do not know.  That is FD's regulation.  I do not
    33        know.  I would assume that part of it, yes.  Most of it,
    34        the initial basis is done on rats, rabbits; the extent in
    35        which it goes through a phase depending on the type of
    36        chemical that is to be used.  It could even include
    37        monkeys.  It could include humans too.  A lot of the
    38        research being done on drugs for AIDS today is currently
    39        being done on humans.
    41   Q.   So the tests use large doses for shorter periods of time
    42        than -----
    43        A.  It goes progressively.  It is not just a big shot today
    44        or a big dose today and "We will see what happens".  It
    45        starts with a little dose, and that is how, it takes a long
    46        time, because they start looking at any possible side
    47        effects and they keep increasing the dose until there is a
    48        level which there is no doubt that it will cause any
    49        harmful effect.
    51   Q.   They cannot scientifically prove that they have not any 
    52        harmful effects on humans, can they? 
    53        A.  You are totally wrong.  You are totally wrong.  If you
    54        look at all of the information that we know today, or if
    55        you look at the medicines that we know today, it is
    56        evidence that that system works.
    58   Q.   I would not agree with that.  So, these tests that you are
    59        aware of, they last about five years, did they?
    60        A.  The average test for any approval of any medication or

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