Day 102 - 13 Mar 95 - Page 05

     
     1        have the time to do that, I would imagine that there is
     2        absolutely nothing wrong with that either.
     3
     4   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may be so.  I read Barlow's letter and
     5        I read the voluntary particulars and I glanced at some of
     6        the appendices.  If you are saying this in order to say it
     7        publicly, so be it but, as far as I am concerned, I am not
     8        drawing any conclusions one way or the other until the
     9        matter is formally raised with me in some respect.
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  Just one final point:  Mr. Rampton, I believe it
    12        was on Friday or maybe Thursday, brought up that he was not
    13        complaining about the word "murder" being used to describe
    14        slaughter.  I brought up that he had also said that he was
    15        not concerned about using the word "torture" which was a
    16        matter of opinion as well.
    17
    18        I found the reference to it.  It is in the transcript of
    19        October 3rd, which was day 30, page 2 line 49.  It was in
    20        the discussion or argument over the Plaintiffs' successful
         amending of their Statement of Claim when Mr. Rampton said
    22        on line starting 46:  "We have conceded, as your Lordship
    23        will remember, in opening that it is obviously a matter of
    24        opinion whether the slaughter of animals for human
    25        consumption might be regarded as inhumane or might properly
    26        or fairly be called torture and so on and so forth.  What
    27        we are concerned about are the misdescriptions, as we see
    28        them, of fact that the leaflet contains."
    29
    30   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, my recollection is I said a good deal
    31        more than that in the course of argument.  I think at some
    32        stage in this case I actually made a distinction between
    33        "murder" and "torture" on the basis that torture carries
    34        an implied statement of fact about the state of mind of the
    35        alleged torturer.  I will not look for it now because
    36        I think your Lordship has probably got better things to do
    37        in court today.  In due course I will find that passage.
    38
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I have no doubt, when we have heard the
    40        evidence and we come to speeches there will be some
         argument about it.
    42
    43   MR. RAMPTON:  That is right, my Lord, there will be.  What one
    44        might or not have said in the course of argument on
    45        amendment is not going to be conclusive.  It is a matter
    46        for your Lordship at the end of the day whether, in the
    47        circumstances, "torture", though in some senses may be a
    48        question of opinion, may also carry with it an implication
    49        of fact and, if so, whether the fact is justified.
    50 
    51   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  The order of events, you wanted to show a 
    52        film? 
    53
    54   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.
    55
    56   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Can you remind me about that?
    57
    58   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  Last week, I think it was on Monday,
    59        Ms. Steel disclosed a film made by a group of calling
    60        themselves Animal Aid about the catching first of turkeys