Day 107 - 24 Mar 95 - Page 02

     1                                      Friday, 24th March, 1995.
     3               MR. RICHARD ANTHONY EDWARD NORTH, recalled.
     5   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Before you carry on questioning Mr. Morris,
     6        there are a couple of things I would like to ask Mr. North
     7        arising out of yesterday.  You were asked by Mr. Morris
     8        yesterday what you knew about any estimated salmonella
     9        burden.  You said you did not know but you should imagine
    10        it was fairly low, certainly less than 1 per cent, which
    11        I remember commenting it probably was not any different do
    12        what Mr. Bennett said.  What did you mean by "beef" when
    13        you were giving that figure?  Did you mean the carcasses,
    14        dehided, eviscerated but not boned, or what?
    15        A.  Incidence in live animals, my Lord.
    17   Q.   But the salmonella, as I understand it, is in the gut?
    18        A.  Yes, not entirely.  In other words, it can be in the
    19        bloodstream at low levels again without causing disease.
    20        It can be in milk in the udder.
    22   Q.   I understand that, but what we are basically concerned with
    23        is that part of the animal which may go on to be ingested
    24        by humans?
    25        A.  Certainly the figure I referred to was in the live
    26        animal, in other words, in the national herd.  I believe
    27        I also said it was likely to be very variable which is the
    28        difficulty in generalisation.
    30   Q.   To be fair to you, you started off by saying you did not
    31        know.
    32        A.  Yes, quite.
    34   Q.   So I take all this with that reservation.  So, can you give
    35        me any view -- no doubt I will have to weigh your view
    36        against any others which are expressed -- of salmonella in
    37        carcasses or boned meat, is that going to vary enormously
    38        and depend on the processes and the precautions taken and
    39        everything else, or is that the only figure you -----
    40        A.  No, I can give you some guidance, my Lord.  I have
    41        cautioned in my professional capacity against using global
    42        figures ---
    44   Q.   Yes.
    45        A.  -- because they are unrealistic.
    47   Q.   Because of the variation?
    48        A.  Because of the variation.  For instance, say, you had
    49        15 million animals and you said the infection rate was 1
    50        per cent, for example; that 1 per cent could be confined 
    51        virtually to one geographic area which would mean that 
    52        outside that area, or cattle outside that area, would be 
    53        100 per cent free but your contamination rate within the
    54        herd within that region could be very high, but then that
    55        picture will vary month by month, season by season.
    57   Q.   I do not want to press you to a figure which is not
    58        useful.  If your answer was either in carcasses or deboned
    59        meat, you think it is there and will occur from time to
    60        time, but you cannot give me any useful, positive figure,

Prev Next Index