Day 114 - 04 Apr 95 - Page 03

     1   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, the one you produced a copy of to
     2        Mr. Rampton.
     4   MR. MORRIS:  Yes, I have extra copies for yourself.
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, just give me the date of it.  It was
     7        first published in 1984.  It is called Report on the
     8        Welfare of Livestock (Red Meat Animals) at the time of
     9        Slaughter.
    11   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you have the reference in the report which
    12        you would suggest the first sentence of that subparagraph
    13        refers to?
    15   MR. MORRIS:  I have marked up a number of references in the
    16        report.  There is a whole section -- it basically goes
    17        through the slaughter line from unloading to the lairage
    18        and the stun pen to the stun and the bleeding.  That is
    19        basically it.  There are quite significant references
    20        throughout the report.  It is based upon their own
    21        observations of the conditions in 1983/1984.
    23   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is the first question then.  The second
    24        question is to what extent you wish or need to put any
    25        parts of the report to Dr. Long which is the most immediate
    26        matter because, for instance, so far as that part of the
    27        leaflet is concerned, I could imagine that the situation
    28        might have arisen that sometime, hopefully before you gave
    29        evidence yourselves, you would have thought to give some
    30        kind of notice that the British government report referred
    31        to in the leaflet was not so far among the bundles of
    32        documents and that here is a copy.
    34        I think one of the -- I am trying recall now -- reasons
    35        I may not have got round to mentioning was because
    36        I thought it was a document which already was in the
    37        bundles somewhere, but which I had not been particularly
    38        referred to or in support of the allegation which is made
    39        in that sentence of the leaflet.
    41        Since you have now given Mr. Rampton a copy, and it is
    42        going to be some considerable time before you do give
    43        evidence, there is absolutely no reason, subject to
    44        anything Mr. Rampton wants to say, why you should not say:
    45         "Well, the recent British government report referred to
    46        there, we believe to be such-and-such a report" because,
    47        although a stage may be reached where one has to say:  "No,
    48        we cannot have any more documents coming in late in the
    49        day", it does seem to me at the moment to be a bit daft to
    50        say, however late it is:  "You cannot tell me what that 
    51        report is".  Once you have told me, of course, I have to 
    52        look at it, or may want to look at it, to see whether that 
    53        sentence is right.
    55        But all this is just thinking aloud because you do not need
    56        Dr. Long as a mechanism to do that.  You have got Dr. Long
    57        in the witness box and you actually want to ask him about
    58        things he has observed and which are his experience.
    60   MR. MORRIS:  Yes.  There were certain things I wanted to put to

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