Day 159 - 20 Jul 95 - Page 05

     
     1        The Lord Justice Neill grounds for reasonable belief and
     2        grounds for supposing evidence will be available at trial,
     3        we have expert witnesses who have already put statements
     4        in, who clearly have on the ground knowledge of the
     5        situation in Brazil.
     6
     7   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is why I was asking to look at them,
     8        because they do not actually give me any help with the
     9        geography, do they?
    10
    11   MR. MORRIS:  No, except regarding the Mato Grosso, I did refer
    12        to Mr. Monbiot's statement.  I was going to refresh your
    13        memory on that.  On page 2 of his statement, in the middle
    14        of that statement:  "A further aspect is the clearance of
    15        cerrado forest in states such as Mato Grosso for soya
    16        beans, much of which goes to feed cattle in Brazil, the
    17        United States and Europe.  The cerrado is also highly
    18        diverse, and its clearance leads to significant losses of
    19        biodiversity."  The Mato Grosso was mentioned in terms of
    20        Barretos in terms of cattle ranching.  It is also very
         close to the northern-most admitted supply plant in Brazil
    22        of McDonald's.
    23
    24   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Is cerrado forest sparse forest?
    25
    26   MR. MORRIS:  Cerrado forest -- my understanding of cerrado
    27        forests, it is dense forests, as far as I know, but it also
    28        includes -- this morning I spoke to Friends of the Earth
    29        Rain Forest Campaigner, Tony Juniper, who said -- the point
    30        is I am justifying reasonable belief here and, therefore,
    31        what was told to me is material --  but, as far as he is
    32        concerned, the whole Amazon region is what
    33        environmentalists are concerned over, including cerrado
    34        forests, and Mr. Monbiot refers to cerrado and the need to
    35        protect cerrado forest.
    36
    37        What was explained to me was the difference between a
    38        cerrado and the other areas of the Amazon is that it is
    39        seasonal rather than all year round, but that the damage
    40        that cattle ranching does is as of much concern and I think
         this backs up -----
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That may be, but I do not at the moment see
    44        that as something in the leaflet.  Let us suppose for the
    45        moment you get over Mr. Rampton's argument about it really
    46        being direct destruction which the leaflet complains of.
    47        Let us suppose you get over that if only because you,
    48        nevertheless, being allowed to plead Costa Rica and
    49        Guatemala, so why not (I was putting to him Brazil), where
    50        do we get anything but rain forest here, so far as 
    51        destruction is concerned?  I know there is the 800 square 
    52        miles point. 
    53
    54   MR. MORRIS:  That is different.  The leaflet refers to tropical
    55        forests.
    56
    57   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  That is not a Brazil rain forest point you
    58        are now making, is it?
    59
    60   MR. MORRIS:  The leaflet refers in its introduction to the