Day 208 - 24 Jan 96 - Page 02

     1                                      Wednesday, 24th January, 1996
     3   MR. RAMPTON:  Mr. Cox, would you please go into the witness
     4        box?
     6   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  While Mr. Cox is going to the witness box,
     7        I notice that in Mr. Nicholson's memorandum, to which you
     8        referred me yesterday, Mr. Rampton, which is divider 43 in
     9        pink 12, in paragraph 5 there is a reference to excess
    10        hours, that there is no longer any requirement to keep
    11        records on them.  So "excess hours" was obviously a term of
    12        art in the legislation.  Presumably, if it matters at all,
    13        one can look to the regulations to find just what it
    14        means.
    16   MR. RAMPTON:  Yes.  We will check up on all those things in due
    17        course.  My Lord, I do not know whether -----
    19   MR. MORRIS:  That is what I sort of suggested yesterday, about
    20        the excess hours, that there had been some kind of -----
    22   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes, but you did not know what the meaning
    23        was.  All I am saying is, if one looks at the regulations,
    24        one will presumably be able to find out just what excess
    25        hours are.
    27   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, it may be convenient -- I do not know
    28        what your Lordship thinks about this -- apart from the
    29        regulation itself, which appears to have gone in 1990, I am
    30        calling a Supervisor next week, Mr. Casner, and he may be
    31        able to help your Lordship about two things which --
    32        obviously, Mr. Henden would not know about the meaning of
    33        the marks given in a store, because he had not done them.
    34        Mr. Casner might be able to help with the terminology and
    35        what the marks mean.  That is one thing.  The other thing,
    36        he ought to be able to tell your Lordship what is the
    37        function of the excess hours sheets that are still kept.
    39   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Yes.  It will not trouble me if I hear
    40        nothing more at all about excess hours in the whole of the
    41        case, but I am merely pointing out that "excess hours" is
    42        obviously a term of art; and if there is any significance
    43        to be drawn from one young man, for instance, having 18
    44        points, something of them in a two week period, then
    45        presumably we will have to look at the regulations to see
    46        what they are.  If any witness can particularly help, of
    47        course, then so be it.
    49   MR. RAMPTON:  My Lord, by that process it would only be an
    50        internal Company matter since it was no longer law that you 
    51        had to keep them. 
    53   MR. MORRIS:  Can I just ask if the Plaintiffs have any
    54        information about the law as it stood in 1993 and 1994 with
    55        regards breaks for crew?  I believe they do have some
    56        information.
    58   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  I do not know whether they have information.
    59        Like all matters of law, each party is supposed to know as
    60        much or as little about it as the other.  But I will wait

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