Day 208 - 24 Jan 96 - Page 02
1 Wednesday, 24th January, 1996
3 MR. RAMPTON: Mr. Cox, would you please go into the witness
6 MR. JUSTICE BELL: While Mr. Cox is going to the witness box,
7 I notice that in Mr. Nicholson's memorandum, to which you
8 referred me yesterday, Mr. Rampton, which is divider 43 in
9 pink 12, in paragraph 5 there is a reference to excess
10 hours, that there is no longer any requirement to keep
11 records on them. So "excess hours" was obviously a term of
12 art in the legislation. Presumably, if it matters at all,
13 one can look to the regulations to find just what it
16 MR. RAMPTON: Yes. We will check up on all those things in due
17 course. My Lord, I do not know whether -----
19 MR. MORRIS: That is what I sort of suggested yesterday, about
20 the excess hours, that there had been some kind of -----
22 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes, but you did not know what the meaning
23 was. All I am saying is, if one looks at the regulations,
24 one will presumably be able to find out just what excess
25 hours are.
27 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, it may be convenient -- I do not know
28 what your Lordship thinks about this -- apart from the
29 regulation itself, which appears to have gone in 1990, I am
30 calling a Supervisor next week, Mr. Casner, and he may be
31 able to help your Lordship about two things which --
32 obviously, Mr. Henden would not know about the meaning of
33 the marks given in a store, because he had not done them.
34 Mr. Casner might be able to help with the terminology and
35 what the marks mean. That is one thing. The other thing,
36 he ought to be able to tell your Lordship what is the
37 function of the excess hours sheets that are still kept.
39 MR. JUSTICE BELL: Yes. It will not trouble me if I hear
40 nothing more at all about excess hours in the whole of the
41 case, but I am merely pointing out that "excess hours" is
42 obviously a term of art; and if there is any significance
43 to be drawn from one young man, for instance, having 18
44 points, something of them in a two week period, then
45 presumably we will have to look at the regulations to see
46 what they are. If any witness can particularly help, of
47 course, then so be it.
49 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, by that process it would only be an
50 internal Company matter since it was no longer law that you
51 had to keep them.
53 MR. MORRIS: Can I just ask if the Plaintiffs have any
54 information about the law as it stood in 1993 and 1994 with
55 regards breaks for crew? I believe they do have some
58 MR. JUSTICE BELL: I do not know whether they have information.
59 Like all matters of law, each party is supposed to know as
60 much or as little about it as the other. But I will wait