- Anything Else -

I protest!

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on May 18, 1999 at 18:10:00:

In Reply to: Sure! posted by Stuart Gort on May 18, 1999 at 10:33:57:

: Please understand that the following is biblical doctrine to which a vast percentage of the factions within Christendom subscibe. I can certainly provide unambiguous scriptural references for every major assetion here.

Correction, Protestantism. Catholicism is a might different, but hey, we're allowed to get really drugged up anywhere its legal- anyone for a trip to Amsterdam? Bain't a sin tha knowest.

:. If we were to do enough good deeds, according to this notion, God, the God of the universe, would owe us something. It seems to me to be somewhat untenable that God should ever be in a position to owe anyone anything. That seems to challenge His diety by definition. But these are deep things and worthy of more thought.

Ah, Justification by Deeds vesus Justification by faith. We shan't, of course, mention the Antinomianism that the doctrine fo Justification by faith led to in the Seventeenth century English Revolution (Specifically the Ranters and the Muggletonians- its highest expression can be seen in the writings of the Poet William Blake, who believed that the Love of Christ redeemed us from *all* Law, and that the *only* thing that set christianity off against other religions (pace Deism) was Christs forgiveness. If I ever go back to Christianity, it'll be to that of William Blake).

This doctrine arose out of the birth of Liberalism and new notions of individualism, before worhsip was a communal act, and I could pray to help get someone elses soul into heaven (cf. bunyan 'and so he was free of their blood') Protestantism privatised conscience, repudiating the sacrement of reconciliation and public forms of contrition, emphasising internal peity, rather than public performativity of piety- this arose, no doubt, through an alienation of the burghers towards the older feudal forms of religion.

Previously God the father (as being analogous conceptualy to a feudal lord) was worshipped above Jesus, the new, privatised, individualised, humanised (cf. Unitarianism) eligion began to place more emphasis upon Jesus, as a person, and the 'personal relationship' with Jesus (rather than through the middle men of the 'one church, holy, catholic and apostolic' (Nicean Creed)).

Since public works could no longer suffice other means of justiying salvation (i.e. going to Heaven, as opposed weither to final death or Hell, take your pick). One such method was Calvinism's notion of 'predestination' by which its decided by God at birth whether you are damned or not, if you are one of the 'elect' you're allright, if not, damned. One way to tell if God had blessed you, was through how prosperous you are- hence religion became a foundation for the protestant work ethic and capitalism in general.

:His love cannot abide that divide. Having no ability to bridge that gap myself, God visits us in the form of Jesus Christ. He proceeds to offer Himself (spotless) as THE sacraficial lamb (required by God for the atonement of sin). In this way God fulfills His own justice requirement for sin and allows man into His holy presence.

I prefer teh unitarianism of Muggleton, he held God is indivisible, but, jesus was not a man, Jesus was the whole of God, and when he died, God was dead for three days. Thats a beautiful idea...makes the sacrifice so much more, we didn't just kill his son, or an avatar, we slew the whole damned God...!

:. I know that all who truly seek to know God come to this conclusion also and trust Him to do what we cannot.

Et, voila, one of the elect hoping for salvation.

: "For by grace you have been saved, through faith (in Jesus), and that is not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not as a result of works, lest any man should boast" Ephesians 2:9

Catholics similarly old dear to the sin of Presumption...

Hope this points up a few things...



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