- Anything Else -

Or is it?

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist party, Uk ) on June 27, 1999 at 14:01:09:

In Reply to: The point is... posted by Stuart Gort on June 25, 1999 at 23:36:28:

: I want that you don't characterize every U.S. military effort in reaction to Soviet imperialism as a capitalistic knee-jerk. I truly respect a man or woman who puts life at risk for my sake.

But our whole point is that it wasn't 'Anti-Communism', and that most of these adventures was US imperialism- basically we're refusing to choose between Stalinist Spinach and Yank Cabbage.

1:How many 'mistakes' does it take to work out that they are in fact deliberate policy?
2:By what Right was the USfighting this war. Specifically, the Operation in Chile which had precious little to do with stopping Russian Imperialism, and everything to do with US spheres of influence.
3:To what extent does the historical record show the idea that moscow was controlling a single, unified Communist movement throughout the world was in fact an hysterical paranoic construction? Certainly, we can see by the record that despite the alleged unity of the Comintern, all communist parties on the ground outside direct Russian spheres of Influence (i.e. Eastern Europe) were their own agents.
4:To what extent were you at risk? Russia was a much weaker country, much poorer, and less well armed, its region of control consisted of poorer states in the world.

: These were real live atrocities being committed by soulless men who had to be stopped. I wish to hear you one day acknowledge that it had to be done.

1:By whom?
2:How?
3:On the basis of what Law or mandate?
4:By whose decision?
5:In what interest? Qui Bono?
6:Who decided which dictatorial and murderous regim,e was to be invaded, and which left alone? What about regular interference in internal politics of other states (including britain and Australia) to inhibit radical leftist movements there?

: I fear that you can't do this because if there is any justification at all for the U.S. to exist, in your mind the ideology you admire begins to crumble.

Or rather, as soon as we start praising 'humanitarian' interventions by a superpower, we must accept the sttructures and conditions that allow it to remain as a super power- wanna stop that dictator, well let us support the other one. Demonstrate the US' adherence to international Rule of Law.

: As long as the U.S. is evil, it becomes irrelevent how well capitalism serves the general citizen.

1:Who said the US was Evil. Nationalist Straw manning there.
2:Even if the US were benificent, Capitalism is demonstrably failing the general citizen. To whit the paucity of health care, education, *millions* in jail. unemployement, etc.

:I believe it is demonstrably better than communism

By this, I take it you mean better than the Communist lead state-capitalist dictatorships- a system *no-one* called Communism except western leaders? (Even Gorbachev talked about moving forward to full communism). A little discrimination would improve teh force of your arguments.

: I want to but still do not understand what motivates you to so adamantly support an ideology that comes from a man. Marx, who was certainly a genius, had flaws as we all do.

1:As I said in another place recently- Marx did not invent Socialism/Communism, it was the workers, the people themselves, among whom he *found* the idea, and which he provided a material analysis of capitalism for it.
2:All ideas come from Men.
3:We are not idolators. Do you idolise the American flag?

:Even if he was perfect, his ideology must be administered by men - who have always failed to administer anything perfectly.

Not really, if his ideas are right, then they will work, if they don't work, they're wrong, i await the day of their being put into practise, as they have not been yet. A certain mr. Lenin's ideas have been tried many times....



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