No, Salvation results in good works, it is not earned by good works."For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
And no, salvation and heaven aren't something we hope for; we either have them by faith alone (not works), or we don't. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13 )
: : Hey Lark, long time no talk.
: How you doing? Haven't been in touch in ages, what's this nonsense your writting?!
: (Skipping, I've read your post and if I'm right it is mainly about the idea that world etc. all amounts to nothing if you adopt a religious perspective and become commmited totally, delegating all will and trust into a dictrine or a dogma.)
: : Lark, Jesus was not Catholic.
: Jesus wasnt a Catholic yes, but he wasnt a Protestant, Muslim or anything else he was a Jew or if you wish to speak in religious terms he was God and therefore not the follower of any religion.
: :He is the truth the way and the life. The healer, redeemer, the merciful, compassionate,loving allknowing Son that gave his life so that they who had enough courage to see what state they were trully in, could recive his gift of everlasting life.
: Fair enough DDN has been through the debate in the past that he cant understand what exactly is meant by this or what course of action it requires you to take, perhaps you can enlighten me and him.
: : Those that think that sin doesn't exist do not think they are in need of salvation.
: I think evil exists and it might be called sin but this business of salvation alone isnt something that I can adhear to, besides it being very selfish, it is conducive to a kind of conservative quietism that was popular among the Pharisees etc.
: : It's not about following godly behaviour that makes you a Christian.
: That's unbiblical, in Matthew Jesus explains about how "the son" will come and take the position of king and judge the nations, he then doesnt say muslims here, Jews there, Christians here and all those who where "one with me" etc. over here, he judges the people on the basis of mutual aid, "You gave me a drink when I was thirsty" etc. and when the people say I didn't know it was you he says whatever you do to the least of mankind you do to me.
: :it is those who have cast their selfishness at the thrown of grace and receive that which only faith can deliver into thier apathetic hearts... The love of the very one who designed our being.
: So what your saying is that this unspecified 'Salvation' is conducive to good acts but good acts and behaviour arent conducive to salvation? Give me a break that was the position of the Pharisees, a position Jesus corrected.
: :That love will give such precious strength, conviction and truth that the things that we onced valued imprtant becomes silly compared to the power, grace and mery we receive in Jesus.
: This is sort of worrying friend because I think of all those racists, zealots and murderers like the "world church of the creator (white power)" or the "Christian Identity" Cult or even the Loyalist Volunteer Force, Orange Volunteers, Red Hand Defenders etc. in Northern Ireland who believe it is their God given right to put a bullet in the head of everyone who doesnt qualify as their sort of Christian.
: Now given your assertions about faith alone etc. these people have a room in heaven (if there be a heaven, I cant be sure if there is but I hope and I know there ought to be one)waiting on them, I know I'm not supposed to judge but I think if a Just God exists he'll view this differently.
: : If we can't stand the idea of God now, then what makes us think that he will force us to be with him always?
: Force us? He wont force us, I dont know many people who cant stand the idea of God, athiests etc. arent, generally, anti-God just anti-prejudice and they view religion as the main source of anti-reason prejudice.
: :The time is now.
: The time is 13:22
: :And this is the gospel of Jesus.
: Read Matthew friend, I hope I havent annoyed you with this post, I like to think I'm on good terms with you but I have these different and sometimes unique positions that I have to defend.
