- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Why is trade union and mass consciousness contradictory?

Posted by: Lark on November 10, 1999 at 14:31:40:

In Reply to: The weakening of the liberal socialists posted by Marcos on November 09, 1999 at 22:29:27:

Hey Marcos Comrade, it's great to hear from you again, if only that your positions in contrast to ours (the "liberals") might demonstrate to the Capitalists that they generalise a bit to much putting us all in the same boat (the likes of me would drill holes in hull because us all dying would be preferable to another success for military socialism), anyway I really do hope that you stick around your posts are interesting even if we really diagree.

: It has been several months since I last posted to this forum, This it the post which created such negativity among the liberal socialists, and there were others.

I think your using liberal as a definition of "watery moderate", someone who doesnt try to fight from fixed positions, that's a bit inaccurate, and a bit unfair to liberals, the opposition to your ultra disciplined, duty and order bound socialism is libertarian and individualistic but definitely not overly pragmatic or in retreat.

: It is only with the courage of the revolutionary soldier

I've often wondered about defining myself as a soldier in a political cause, it may in one context mean a readiness to sacrifice myself for the cause (Socialism being largely a modern attempt to construct a theory worth living and dying for in the wake of religion and the light of reason, which has wiped away national chauvinism and eliteism as values for anyone with a shred of decency), or disciplined determination etc. if that where the case it would be fine but the people who really determine themselves as "political Soldiers" are Facists and Nazi's since the 1980's who mean unquestioning submission to the authority of leadership and the loss of personality by the designation "Soldier".

:of communism that it can be placed in power

I think it is more correct to say that communism correctly understood is to destroy power because what is power by the manifestation of inequality and status? If you are going to be truly egalitarian differences in rank within the state or party can not be legitimate and must be understood as distasteful provisional measures.

:- the power of the proleteriat over the vile kings of capital cannot come about without the vanguard

Well complete spontaneity fails to result in revolution but a vanguard should be an advance guard, people who are aware of what way situations can be used to their advantage like positive machavelli's, rather than a seperate group to be venerated and given status. Leaderless resistance is impossible to smash, vanguards can be arrested and executed.

:for as Lenin knew - the working class only has the trade union consiousness - not the mass consciousness required for our socialist future!

Why is trade union and mass consciousness contradictory? Trade Unions are the one organisation that actual workers are more likely to have contact with and work with and use in struggles in the workplace, whereas a party is completely different.

If this quote of Lenin, why do you need to quote him? I would give it equal consideration if you have just thought it up, means that workers will only strive for a comfortable capitalism, a friendly capitalism, through trade unionism, then that's a legitimate criticism but then the unions should change and become more syndicalist, organising in a party is only a distraction.

: Only Barry Stoller has braved the forum with this truth, the others seem to be liberal socialists who would merely dream!

Would merely dream? I think your wrong here a lot of impatient people content themselves by going to party conferences and thinking they have played their part in 'the struggle', or assist in 'disciplining' memebers of the party (ensuring obediance and preventing free thought) etc. believing they have done their part, even engaged in violence on behalf of the parties aims but that isnt enough that is the cause of the party, people must transform their lives and see that their lives are their cause that to improve them they must act for themselves in the struggle.

I mean a count the eco-warriors who actually go and camp out and occupy things they view to be under threat by capitalism as more active, more of a party of action, than the communists who hold talks amongst themselves at which agreement is assured anyway.

: I shall post again on this matter!!

I hope so, Cheers Comrade, are you the one who posted in favour of gun ownership?

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