- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Then we're making some progress here

Posted by: Stoller on November 11, 1999 at 15:32:08:

In Reply to: I agree with you that the children do not deserve any of it. posted by David on November 11, 1999 at 10:47:45:

: I agree. You are right. However, the question arises as to how we should deal with such injustices that happened in the past. Find direct descendants?

The point I was aiming to make was that EACH EPOCH has its own property relations, social relations, and concomitant ideology (what you call 'morals' and 'rights').

We cannt correct the injustices of the past.

Capitalism is PREDICATED upon injustices (and expropriations) of the past.

All we can do is correct the injustices of the PRESENT.

Dismantle capitalism!

: I would argue that the enclosure movement was a result of trying to institute a new economic system while maintaing past hierarchal values. It was the elitism of the old monarchism that caused England to try to mesh capitalism with the whole idea of static classism.

But the expropriation was perpetrated not ONLY by the monarchy but by the rising class of bourgeoisie. You're trying to pass the buck. The bourgeoisie defeated the monarchs---yet expropriation continued to be a predicate of CAPITALISM, a means to 'find' the 'willing' factory workers that enriched the first capitalists. The peasants NEVER GOT THEIR LAND BACK---just like the Native Americans didn't. To the advantage of the CAPITALISTS.

: : One of these days, mister, the cards are going to fall THE OTHER WAY, and when the proletariat come looking for you, you better have your passport in order.

: After my original response, I started to think about your question. I realized that I had made a gross error in my analysis of it. I agree with you that the children do not deserve any of it. They have no entitlement to any sort of education, no matter how poor it is. They are not entitled to day care, or anything else. Since they have not done anything to earn it, they should not get it. It is the parents obligation to provide their children with education, food, and housing. Not the obligation of everyone else.

Hold it.

You agree that it is unfair to blame the children for their own poverty.

You say its the fault of the parents.

But the parents, too, were once children. Most likely poor children.

Poverty is like a crushing debt. It almost never ends.

The system that creates intergenerational poverty---the shitty living conditions, crime-filled neighborhoods, atrocious education, non-existent day care, shortage of living wages, etc., etc.---IS capitalism, NOT poverty itself.

You're blaming the sympton, David, not the disease.

And that's lame.

Follow Ups:


The Debating Room Post a Followup