- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Socialism cant survive in the shadow of a gunman!!

Posted by: Lark on December 09, 1999 at 11:13:02:

In Reply to: 'Workers Control' must be subordinate to job rotation posted by Stoller on December 08, 1999 at 20:53:56:

: Worker's control, if allowed to subordinate the principle of job rotation, could potentially re-create the very divisions of labor that engender hierarchy.

Here, sir, there's a difference. Namely performing DIFFERENT tasks, taking an interest in DIFFERENT tasks is not the same as establishing a hierarchy with status and authority.

I think you value your blueprint for equality more than freedom Stroller, the 'trots' of spain where murdered by the Communists along with the anarchists because of their insistance upon workers control.

Let me give you a scenario, I've just shot and killed my capitalist neo-conservative boss do you think I'm going to hand over my gun and submit to a new party assigned one?

: 'Liberty in the workforce.' Nice phrase---but empty of content. You want liberty for all without ever considering the fact that positive liberties in many instances curtail negative liberties.

What??!!! Have you worked in the workplace at all Barry??!! I know a lot of people, myself too, who wouldnt mind the mind numbing shittiness of stacking shelves or watching bottles on a production line if they knew that the boss wasnt going to be on their back or they where going to under servaillance, all the time suspected of not working hard by people who actually dont work hard.

: What do you say to those individuals who want the 'liberty' to do only the work they choose? Such as mental (skilled) work? If they get what they want, then there will be MORE physical (unskilled) work for everyone else.

No I dont, the fact that what you way you dress, what way you cut your hair, what time up go to work and what time you go home at are not in your control was more what I was thinking off, I think you'll find I agree with job rotation, subordinated to workers control but job rotation none the less.

: The uniform liberty you advocate is utopian.

Right, since I've come here you've seen fit to try and denigrate my ideas not through defeating me in the debate, or even being libertarian enough to say well we'll try it out and see, but by labelling me Capitalist, Liberal, Fascist even and now utopian, what's next Barry Bourgousie?

Fuck the Sparts, I dont want no orderly unfreedom or semi-freedom.

: Some work sucks.If anyone is EVER permitted to dodge their share of it (for the usual reasons), then hierarchy and privilege will inevitably emerge.

Fair enough and disagreeable work will sink to next to nothing when everyone is equally liable to it.

: Again: freedom to, or freedom from?.

Equally both.

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