- Capitalism and Alternatives -

You're enough to drive anyone to drink, Barry.

Posted by: MDG on December 15, 1999 at 21:50:38:

In Reply to: Responding to a rather dull post posted by Barry Stoller on December 15, 1999 at 21:18:28:

: : I agree that there are naturally occurring schedules of reinforcement, and residual ones stemming from human activity.

: 'Residual'? Like methods of payment is a minor thing?

No, mon frere. Residual, as in occurring as a result of.

: Stoller:
: Interesting. Earlier in your post, you impugned materialism, now you admit to having an expensive hobby.

: : So now you're my shrink? I thought we were analyzing socialism.

: YOU brought it up.

Oui, but I didn't ask you to analyze me. I'm setting the record straight.

[Dull Marxist theory deleted]

: : Since you bring it up: I do reject materialist, i.e., a preoccupation with material things rather than intellectual or spiritual matters. This does not mean I reject earthly pleasures... And on a further personal note, diving to me is a deeply spiritual activity, especially at night, when one is enveloped by the warm ocean, drifting past murky coral formations, and occasionally glimpsing the glow of a phosphorescent critter. You ought to try it sometime, Barry -- it's awe inspiring.

: Let me get this straight: you reject 'materialism' in favor of the 'intellectual or spiritual.' There's a big distinction for you on that point---eh?. As it turns out (proving Marx was correct when he posited that the mode of production determines the level of consciousness), some material things are necessary for you to get 'spiritual.'

Marx, shmarx. I can get spiritual sitting outside on a starry night. Stop making assumptions about people based on one dead guy's musings.

: Now, some fat cat capitalist will tell you (seriously) that HE needs a 40-room mansion with a view of the Pacific ocean crammed full of 17th century furniture to get 'spiritual.'

If that's the ONLY way he can get spiritual, he has a problem. He ought to try diving, or sitting outside on a starry night.

: The only difference is that you can justify YOUR possessions while you may reject his.

Are you totally without any possessions at all in this world? Get off your high horse for a change.

: MY point is that SOCIETY AS A WHOLE should make these determinations.

I haven't formed an opinion on that validity of that assertion yet, which is why I'm talking to you (dull though I may be, but you seem like an understanding and patient type, so do bear with me).

: : Who's to say that if we voted in socialism, the Frenchy Gort Cruels wouldn't weigh their options and decide to accept it, perhaps with the goal of changing things over time via democratic means?

: Have you taken to drink also?

I think you could use a shot or two, Barry. Stop picking fights when it's not called for.

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