- Capitalism and Alternatives -

This from the guy who endorses Timothy McVeigh.

Posted by: Nikhil Jaikumar on January 13, 19100 at 17:34:25:

In Reply to: So now you think a theocracy is the way to go? posted by Frenchy on January 13, 19100 at 11:48:32:

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$Did you read the peice about abortion at the Catholic Encyclopedia? Isn't that what you asked for? I have no idea why your getting your panties twisted in a bunch. I don't take the subway.

Yeah, you'd rather pollute the shit out of the environment, I forgot. is the subway too 'liberal' for you?

: : : Beings that may be treated simply as means to the perfection of persons can have no rights, and to this category the brute creation belongs. In the Divine plan of the universe the lower creatures are subordinated to the welfare of man.

: : Yeah, St. Francis of Asissi was really a animal abuser. Try again Frenchy.

: $$$$$$$$$$$No, St. Francis had regard for animals (to the extent that the legends are accurate), but that doesn't mean that he equated animals with humans. They, as with all creation, were manifestations of God.

So are we.

: : Right. I'm not a Muslim, and I don't admire Islam more than any other religion which I know nothing about- i certainly have no desire to become one myself, but that kind of statement is beyond silly- JUDAISM AND ISLAM SHARE THE SAME ETHICS, in case you forgot! Islam derived most of its law from Mosaic law! All the way down to the penalty for aduletery! What the hell is this trying to say? I can't figure it out.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$Yeah, neither can I. How come so many Muslims want to kill others, especially westerners, the great Satan and all that?

Yeah, right. This from the guy who endorses Timothy McVeigh. How come Muslim countries have so much lower crime rates than Wetsern ones? How come of the countries in teh world with the lowest murder rates, almost all of them are either Islamic or West African (and West Africa is about half Islamized.)

How come the countries with the highest crime rates (Brazil, Colombia, etc) are all good Chritian ones?

I feel sorry for you Frenchy. Even when you leave aside your opinions and try stating facts, your "facts" turn out to be bogus. Remember your mythical "Pope John Paul XXIII" who never existed? I can show you the post where you made that laughable blooper if you'd like.

: Your very statement that you yourself wouldn't want to be a Muslim indicates that even in your mind their are some religions that are inferior to others, no?

No. Hard as it may be for you to understand, I believe in a little thing called TOLERANCE> That means that while Religion X may appeal to me, and religion Y may not, I'm not going to say religion Y is inferior to religion X. One of them is more appealing to me personally, that doesn't mean it's objectively "better" or "worse. I'm a neo-Hindu, not a Chrsitian. But that fdoesn't mean I consider Hinduism to be superior.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$So now you think a theocracy is the way to go? What happened to Socialism/Communism/Liberalism?

Gotta hand it to you, Frenchy, you really do conceal your bigotry really well....NOT. Of course I don't think a theocracy is teh way to go, except in that I think socialism is the way of God. But Islamic countries have historically eben far less repressive of otehr religions than the Christian countries of Europe. Does the Dutch persecution of Jews and Catholics ring a bell? How about the Spanish persecutions of JEws, Muslims, and later Communists? How about the massive burnings of the Mayan holy books by Cortes and his men?

: : It's not 'monotheism', it's simply 'theism', the Hindus believe in a little thing called tolerance, meaning it''s OK if you see God as having a single personal aspect or many of them. The Hindu "Universal Spirit" or "Brahman" is sometimes seen as transcending the different personal forms which it may manifest (e.g. Krishna, Shiva, etc.) sometimes, on the other hand, it's seen as identical with one or more (generally Vishnu).

: : :to the degraded nature-worship of the ignorant,

: : Yeah, suck it Frenchy, we don't call our poorer citizens primitive or degraded, even though you might prefer to, and we don't spit on their beliefs, nature worship or otherwise. Nature worship is a perfectly legitimate form of recognizing the glory that is God. Looks like it worked a little better than your western capitalism at combatting environmental destruction. Oh I frogot, your creed is fuck the environment. Well the Hindus beg to disagree. We were the first religion in teh world to practice nature conservation and set up wildlife refuges.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$So, you critisize a person for his beliefs while at the same time admitting that you'd prefer not to be of this particular religion, or perhaps that one.

Who am I criticizeing for tehir beliefs? If I'm criticizing you, it's defensive criticism; I'm defending my own belief system against viciuous and reactionary attack.

: If your standards are relativistic, if you insist that all religions are worthy of respect, then why in the world are you denigrating a religion that proclaims itself to be the true religion? Eh?

: : :half savage peasant....

: : YEah, that expression really shows your empathy fro teh peasants. Nice one Frenchy.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$There is nothing, N-O-T-H-I-N-G, glorious about being a peasant. If you think so, walk your talk..

There's nothing 'glorious' about being a capirtalist either. But you don't ahve to contemptuously grind your heel in tehir faces with insulting remarks.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Yeah, many Westerners are seeking enlightment in different places, including the East.
: Rot's 'o ruck.
: The Icelandics have their own Epics. So?

They're Christian. What about it? Do they have a religious and philosophoical system that I ought to look at? What does it say?

: The question is 1.Did Jesus live, was he a real person and 2. Was his resurrection a fact?
: If the answers are 'yes',...

Christ was, I think, a real person, and he may have been resurrected. He may have been an incarnation of God. I believe many other figures may also have been incarnationcs of God. :
: $$$$$$$$$$$Yup, your absolutely correct. And in Japan, after the warlords realized that the missionaries were slowly but surely having a serious impact on conversions, they simply slaughtered the missionaries. Dittos China. India? I don't know about St. Thomas, but the Christians are taking a shellacking today. You may have read about it.

Bite me! Christianity can certainly not teach anyone else about historical tolerance, at leats until teh mid-20th century. St. Thomas went to the Kerala coast in the first century AD, converted a few peopel, and was martyred near Chennai; today he ahs a mountain and the Santhome cathedral named after him. All objective sources acknowledge that India has been hisytoriaclly teh most toleramnt major nation in teh world towards parctitioners of different religions. Every type of religion is represneted there: Hinduism, nature worship, ancestor worship, Sikhism, Islam, Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Syrian Orthodoxy, Baha'ism, etcetera. India is virtually the only counrty with a Jewish community that never witnessed anti-Semitism.Right now there is a bcklash taking place against some Christian missionaries; hwoever in a historical context, and compared iwth otehr countries, India is the summit of tolerance. The reaosn Christian conversions haven't doen too well is that most Hindus were happy with their religion; and thsoe that weren't, usually out of class or economic reasons, usually turned to Buddhism or Islam.

: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Sure, in India. But just as the influence of Hinduism cannot be erased from the history of India, neither can the history of Christianity be erased from the history of America.

Uh, huh.

: Take a look at the bottom line...where would you rather live? Where would most people rather live? Why?

I'd rather live in a humane socialist society. So woudl most people, if you look outside the narrow specrum of teh capitalist or middle class elite. Take al;ook around you. Many people don't want any part of much of what they identify with American society. The Africans see our high crime rates. The Cubans see 40 million Americans without health care. The Swedes see our obsene gap between rich and poor. The Norwegians see our violent and porgnographic media. The canadians see the specter of American Fascism. The Chinese see our scorn for the elderly. The japanese see our decaying families. The Indians see our high-handed foreign policy. Etcetera....

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