- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Name calling now.

Posted by: Lark on January 14, 19100 at 11:16:11:

In Reply to: Petty-bourgeois 'socialism' posted by Stoller on January 13, 19100 at 11:20:14:

Very mature and intellectual that is.

: In my recent debates with RD, NJ, and Lark, these gentlemen advocate preindustrial (artisan, peasant) production as a means to mitigate capitalism's horrors.

OK now I dont know about RD and NJ but I will be requesting chapter and verse of where and how I advocated it, the very words because I never have. What you are doing is twisting my words, reinterpreting them, with a mind to full of political prejudice to think it out.

:They reject my Marxist proposals to retain the ultra-abundant mode of production that capitalism has developed.

Here's a translation from stollerese:

They reject the Sparticist sectarian proposal to maintain capitalist management practices and consequently capitalist social relations.

: Concurrently, RD and Lark (not NJ) reject my call for job rotation. RD is even on the record as saying that 'a professional porter... is a multi-facetted and skilled task, that engages mind and spirit.' Lark, of course, has had his share of similar bloopers.

Er...I do reject gunmans socialism, if your going to kill or strave me for non-compliance then your no better than a capitalist, no worse than a capitalist at least they think they are giving you a fair chance to comply and non-compliance is irrational.

:And NJ, while accepting rotation on principle, does defend petty proprietorship (10% to 20%).

Lets not be stupid about property, the only people who genuinely act with a mind to it's abolition are the communists like Kropotkin or RD, what you would do Barry is replace capitalist property with state property, property in and of itself does nothing just as a rifle doesnt kill until someone gets their hands on it and uses the resulting power relations in their favour.

: It occurs to me that while I advocate keeping capitalism's mode of production (i.e. industrialized, centralized abundance) yet abolishing its social relations (i.e. hierarchy, private ownership of the means of production)

I'd like to damn well see how you mean to do that, I advocate the exact opposition in principle, abolish the social relations and the rest will evolve through trial and error.

:---a consistent Marxist program---,

A Sparticiist program and a sectarian one to boot, I'm glad of your mormon like sect status you zealots.

:these gentlemen urge instead abolishing capitalism's mode of production while retaining its social relations.

Now that's a bit nonsensical, what your saying is that we want pre-insdustrial capitalism, I'd like to see you prove that, it's not us that thought the butchering 'workers state' was a complete success and created an order of abundance for all, revise history if you wish but dont revise my ideas, at least not in my prescence.

:And that's what I call petty-bourgeois 'socialism.'

Oh well, you got me on the run now, it wouldnt be like you to engage in a bit of name calling rather than debate the damn issues. Oh, well this must be the result of being so, so attached to pre-concived programs and utopian grand plans.

Class war until the last man, women or child.

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