- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Does that 'junior' reference mean i should call you 'pops'?

Posted by: Piper on February 02, 19100 at 13:49:58:

In Reply to: You've been eating too many hot dogs before bedtime, junior posted by Barry Stoller on February 02, 19100 at 10:48:13:

: : You Mr Stoller are the one who made me break my resolution...

: I did? Well, wouldn't Skinner be pleased to see you going over to his side.

Piper: Hardly stoller. On a Skinnerian analysis i should be exhibiting avoidance behaviour. If you want to debate skinner (as opposed to taking snide swipes) then go ahead.

: : You are seriously suggesting what Marx wrote is not utopian?

: Let's see. Already existing industry; already existing class of non-owners; capitalist crisis of overproduction; acerbated de-skilling of all workers... sounds pretty here and now.

: I know the Bolsheviks started a worker's state in 1917. You wanna tell me about any 'anarchist' states I might have overlooked?

Piper: Strictly speaking 'anarchist state' would be an oxymoron.

They might have started a workers state, but did it conform precisely to the outline that Marx gave? Apparently not. Utopia is a dream to be pursued, the ultimate society if you like. That is all Marx is, a conception of the perfect society and a vision of how it might come about (nb not a 'scientific' one either).

: : BTW 'tank' is a reference to your love of violent revolution and authority.

: Will you be calling me Stroller, too?

Piper: No. But you HAVE advocated the use of violence, as well as propaganda by the state to achieve your ends. You have also disdained moral concerns.

Unlike you, i do not believe in Marx's material dialectic. Nor do i believe that violence will ever bring anything but misery and more violence.

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