: : Rather than attempt a fruitless pursuit of all the schools and sects of contemporary Marxism, the discussion here will be limited to (1) the Marxism of Marx and Engels, and (2) the mainstream of twentieth-century Communism, which takes Lenin as the central legitimate inheritor and developer of their tradition.
: : I don't see anything worth debating here, do either of you?
: No, i don't see anything particulary controversial there. Perhaps some of the marxists might complain about the paternalistic (ie dictatorial)slant that is given to marx and his theories. Aside from that it looks like pretty old news to me.
: If your looking to make a point frenchy, how about explaining it in your own words, rather relying on the works of others.
I simply accepted your invitation to copy the words of others. Are you now withdrawing that invite?
Here's the funny part, at least from my point of view; when I do speak for myself I'm roundly convicted of being a boot-licker for an invisible boss, not being an authentic person (or some such silly words to that effect), being a....well, it goes on and on.
NOT THAT I'M COMPLAINING!! I DON'T CARE! But those are the facts.
And when I refer to someone else to support my position, why then the source is slanted, a right-winger, not to be trusted, a reactionary, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
It isn't dialouge most of you on the Left want, it's subjugation. I have my opinions, not the same as yours, but well within the framework of defensible and credible.
On the other hand your side is saddled w/ absurdities such as 'alienation' (of which during nearly three decades of blue-collar work I had never once heard a blue-collar use) and 'surplus value'.
Not to mention the results of these ideas when put into practice.