: : I mean is that how your planning on winning over the working class? Ridicule? That's not going to win over anybody it's just going to alienate and push them towards anything but marxism.
: : The only person being an idiot in such a situation is the marxist, because they are undermining their own goals for the sake of intellectual flatulence.
: Piper, you have clearly expressed the gist of what made me so mad in the first place. (Almost) everyone here dumps all over Frenchy and then the same people get worked up about my harsh tone to them. How hypocritical. I treat my opponents far better than (most) people EVER treat Frenchy. And, in case no one noticed, Frenchy and I have perfectly civil debates.
*Yes, I *must* have missed all those 'civil debates.' In fact I was surprised not to find links to these incredible civil debates in the text of your post.
As for your bit piper, (nice use of insult there BTW... a perfect illustration of the method I myself employ [I'll spare you the pot-kettle-black analogy... oops]) I'm reminded of a story which is told about one of the first meetings Lenin had with who was to be his future wife, Nadezdha Krupskaya. It was at a 'Committee for Illiteracy[sic]' meeting in which Lenin remarked that "The workers need more than spoonfuls of alphabet soup!" He was badly scolded with almost everyone present saying that the point of the committee was to teach workers to read; not provide a forum for revolution. He was said to have laughed and then dryly remark that if anyone wants to try and save Tsarism in the 'Committee for Illiteracy,' they were welcome to try.
Similiarly, if your goal is to proselytize a 'Frenchy' to your cause, I wish you luck and I will of course (with many others here I'm sure) be monitoring your progress. Personally, if I know anyone is 'being civil to me' for such ulterior motives, it serves only to piss me off that much more. Some of us prefer things a bit more honest.
It's called polemics guys... were not supposed to like everyone or necessarily anyone, *that's* the whole point. Opinions are supposed to be criticised, positions taken, POV's defended, tempers are supposed to flair and old scores are meant to be settled... So long as you're combining insult with smatterings of reason and logic, more power to you.
You want civility, go join the Miss Manners BBS; you want to debate politics, stop wringing your hands and debate.* --K