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: : : : : I mean is that how your planning on winning over the working class? Ridicule? That's not going to win over anybody it's just going to alienate and push them towards anything but marxism.
: : : : : The only person being an idiot in such a situation is the marxist, because they are undermining their own goals for the sake of intellectual flatulence.
: : : : Piper, you have clearly expressed the gist of what made me so mad in the first place. (Almost) everyone here dumps all over Frenchy and then the same people get worked up about my harsh tone to them. How hypocritical. I treat my opponents far better than (most) people EVER treat Frenchy. And, in case no one noticed, Frenchy and I have perfectly civil debates.
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: : : *Yes, I *must* have missed all those 'civil debates.' In fact I was surprised not to find links to these incredible civil debates in the text of your post.
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: : : As for your bit piper, (nice use of insult there BTW... a perfect illustration of the method I myself employ [I'll spare you the pot-kettle-black analogy... oops]) I'm reminded of a story which is told about one of the first meetings Lenin had with who was to be his future wife, Nadezdha Krupskaya. It was at a 'Committee for Illiteracy[sic]' meeting in which Lenin remarked that "The workers need more than spoonfuls of alphabet soup!" He was badly scolded with almost everyone present saying that the point of the committee was to teach workers to read; not provide a forum for revolution. He was said to have laughed and then dryly remark that if anyone wants to try and save Tsarism in the 'Committee for Illiteracy,' they were welcome to try.
: : Piper: So your going to 'deliver' the revolution eh. Isn't that called despotism?
: *You really *must* start taking the tablets, babe. How on earth can you draw this conclusion based upon this story? More to the point, Lenin is clearly making the case that in order for any group of workers to gain the power necessary to change their conditions, more than mere literacy is needed. How that simple fact translates into despotism for you is a question best left to clinical psychologists.* --K
Piper: Cut the crap Krasny I know you support despotism as a form of revolution. You could not in good conscience call yourself a Marxist if you didn't.
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: : : Similiarly, if your goal is to proselytize a 'Frenchy' to your cause, I wish you luck and I will of course (with many others here I'm sure) be monitoring your progress. Personally, if I know anyone is 'being civil to me' for such ulterior motives, it serves only to piss me off that much more. Some of us prefer things a bit more honest.
: : Piper: I'm not being nice to frenchy for ANY ulterior motive.
: *That's not what your argument stated piper, old bean:
: "I mean is that how your planning on winning over the working class? Ridicule? That's not going to win over anybody it's just going to alienate and push them towards anything but marxism.
: The only person being an idiot in such a situation is the marxist, because they are undermining their own goals for the sake of intellectual flatulence.
: *Clearly, you're making attempting to put forth the case, how ever inanely, that should I desire a particular goal (in this instance, to 'win over' the Frenchy's of the world) I should not resort to 'ridicule.' *That* is the living definition of 'ulterior motive' mate.* --K
Piper: Christ the whole point of rational debate is persuasion. If you don't want to show somebody that you are right the best way to do it is to ridicule them and piss them off.
: I mean frenchy hasn't insulted me, so i see no reason to insult him (i think its called do unto others as they do unto you- i made an exception in your case Krasny because you expressed your fervent desire for it)). Besides i prefer rational discourse. Now if people want to start name calling and bullyboy tactics, i'm going to respond (it's called just deserts).
: *That's 'desserts' old boy... an easy way to remember the difference between the two is to remember that whenever your fingers come into contact with a keyboard, intelligence 'deserts' you; A Krasny post usually contains both reason and insult, which is like having two 'desserts.'
Piper: Oh really. I think you should have a look here, here, and especially here.
*is that blueberry pie on your face?*
: Again, I don't personalise this stuff. Whether you're Frenchy or Piper or some other handle matters not a whit to me...
Piper: Just don't expect to win any arguments that way Kransy...