: Barry (so profound): In short: whoever claims that such-and-such is the absolute morality governing all people in all places in all times must request that their claim be taken on faith. This may work with illiterate peasants, it won't work with Marxists. Either 'absolute morality' can be empirically defended, or it cannot.
: I've taken note of concepts, like LTV, that you defend empirically, Barry. I've also taken note of you getting red and losing your temper when you can't convince your comrades you have empirical proof of your silly theories. Now, when you imply that Marxists are more intelligent than people of faith, I see a critical bias that exposes you a little bit more.
I too have a problem with citing theory as empirical proof, e.g. historical materialism and much else in Marxism (note, my skepticism of the validity of Marxist theory does not mean my rejection of it -- my jury is still deliberating). However, Stuart, I urge you to lay off the atheists unless you want to get involved in a long, drawn-out exchange over the historical crimes of religionists versus the crimes of atheists. You know what I'm talking about.
Please accept that both religionists and atheists (i.e., secular humanists) have the potential to be either good or evil people, and that belief or nonbelief in God does not guarantee either.