- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Sorry, you're out to lunch

Posted by: Barry Stoller on February 28, 19100 at 11:59:06:

In Reply to: Lark & Barry: that reform and revolution thang... posted by Red Deathy on February 27, 19100 at 17:06:58:

: First off, we need to examine the state as means of ideology, as a source of legitimation for the continuance of the struggle - to win the state from the ruling class...

Yes, to 'win' the state is the object.

But you're suggesting that elections or 'spoilt' ballots can 'win' a state, which is total crap.

: Now, on top of that, we'd have the fact that we could then sezie and control the *means of violence*, and more specifically, their co-ordinating *material* structures - so as in order to strip of the state of its repressive character, and prevents them being used against us.

If you think some successful election would do that, you are deluded!

The only way to 'seize and control the *means of violence*' is to LITERALLY do so.

You then say...

: As you may have gathered, this doesn't happen with spoilt ballots...

Right, I should say so!

But THEN you say...

: Our aim is to send Delegates to political representative positions (parliament, and although we think the U.S. presidency to be inherently undemocratic, there to), ion order to seize the ideological initiative, and also take control of the means of co-ordinating state violence - such a move would severly diminish any response from the ruling class.


You are explicitly saying here that winning an election itself will be all there is to 'take control of the means of co-ordinating state violence.'

And that is crap.

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup