- Capitalism and Alternatives -

I think you're talking about democracy

Posted by: Samuel Day Fassbinder ( Citizens for Mustard Greens, USA ) on March 19, 1999 at 18:06:29:

In Reply to: Well, it allows for change without revolution. posted by bud on March 19, 1999 at 12:12:17:

: So what, you may say? Well, it allows for change without revolution. I know some people in this forum may find the idea horrid, but more change has occured in the past fifty years in America than in the previous one hundred and fifty and the only reason there hasn't been a violent revolution is that capitalism has allowed change to occur through the action and opinions of it's own citizens.

SDF: I would disagree, and argue that what you're talking about is democracy, not capitalism. Democracy gives people the vote; capitalism separates them into social classes. There are plenty of capitalist dictatorships out there; they don't "allow change to occur through the action and opinions of (their) own citizens," just witness what's going on today in Malaysia or Indonesia. Also, if you study carefully Red Deathy's posts, you can see that what he's talking about is democratic control of the means of production, i.e. democracy. But he calls it "socialism" and deems it exclusive of the capitalist system.

: Have people been killed, imprisoned, or censored along the way? You bet, no argument here, but really, do we truly think any govermental system implemented won't have it's atrocities? it's lapses? or it's misgivings?

SDF: I really hope the above sentence isn't a defense of the status of the United States as the self-proclaimed defender of global capitalism, also as the world's largest penal colony. If America is great, it is for other reasons.

: The best we can hope for is a system that allows for some form of self-determination, learns from it's mistakes, and be done with it.

SDF: Again, when you specify "governmental system," I think you're talking about democracy. Sure, capitalism today, with the predominance of corporations, is a system where the government "gives the store away" to corporations, but people like Gee are talking about something else, fantastic as it may sound... remember you're responding to a thread on anarcho-capitalism...

: There will never be a classes society, simply because our nature won't allow it. Your neighboor won't allow it and your co-workers won't allow it.

SDF: First of all, this is completely unsupported propaganda for a capitalist system. My co-workers won't "allow" a society where they work together as equals? How do you know? Do you know my co-workers? Seondly, I believe I've addressed this question here. "Human behavior is malleable, capable of being manipulated by circumstances, and how this is useful to us should be our proper object of concern."

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