- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Square One

Posted by: bill on March 25, 1999 at 11:17:44:

In Reply to: Value/Production, Production/Value, and circular reasoning posted by Joel Jacobson on March 24, 1999 at 11:38:26:

:: I would classify this as a law (according to you): a person's "social class" is determined by their relation to the means of production. Is this true or no? If you agree then I don't see how in the world this can't be a law (according to you) as it appears in the form A causes B (weird, that's undialectical).

Good grief! After 20 posts are we back to square one? A lot of this wrangle has to do with how you are using words in different contexts. In this particular case it is the two words "determine" and "cause". Without taking anything away from the meaning of Deathy's response, I would suggest substituting the words "determined by" with "defined by".
This would force the form "A causes B" into logical fallacy.

So for example, a lake can be "defined by" its shore - and visa versa. Each CANNOT EXIST without the other. To state that a lake causes the shore is little more than semantic game playing.

:Yes, a relationship to the means of production does determine class. The relationship is dialectical since the produyctive base provides a master signifier affixing positions within the social system, providing Being and its negation.

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