>Basically DrCruels arguments are elitist, and are based on a fundamental distaste for co-operativing with, and trusting, both otehrs , and himself.
Goodness. The truth is made plain. My arguments against the wholesale theft of property by a presumably beneficent ‘other’ are elitist, and show me as someone who does not co-operate with or trust my fellow man. Well. I am glad to have someone as authoritative as Mr. Red, to point out my personal flaw, and in his most humble way, deign to dictate to the world how we are to run our lives. My assumption that this smacks of a patronizing attitude only accentuates my irascibility.
Obviously, I am not a ‘team player’. Time for the truncheon and guillotine, I suppose …
>*sigh* Its strange really that people always bring up points about charismatic leaders, its sad really- do you honestly beleive that you would follow a charismatic dictator? Are you easilly swayed by every charming voice?
It really doesn’t matter whether you support Mr. Hitler or Mr. Stalin, now, does it? Once these fellows fill the vacuum left by an ‘anarchized’ state, it tends to become difficult to have any sort of opinion at all. Again, I remind Mr. Red of Mr. Makhno, and his amusing affair with one Mr. Lenin, et. al.
>All accusations agaihnst mob rule assume mob as other, and the speaker as the rational self. Dem,ocracy means an absence of leaders, rule by teh rational indivuals collectively. Do you really trust yourself so little?
No, my dear fellow. And do you, kind sir, trust me so little as to not be able to dispose properly of my own property? Or must that, as in all other things, be put up to a vote?
I have always found it difficult to be a ‘mob’, yet find that others, in significant quantities, seem to achieve this feat with ease. Perhaps this peculiar paradox might shed illumination on your vexing quandary.
>Socialism would require the productive capacity of industrialism. (DC: My point exactly. It always does.)
People would understand the values they need to run their own lives, why should they regulate themselves, protect themselves form themselves?
People are sensible. We are all adults, and all of us are governed by reason. Why, then, do the police seem to have so much to do? Capitalist perfidy, perhaps?
>Makhno was a leader of a peasant uprising, the working class is better educated, and better organised. (DC: Very likely why socialism is so much of a hard sell amongst them.)
: To be free, I must lose the right to own. To do as I desire, I must forgo the objects of desire. Who will 'own' what I must use? Why, everyone, of course! And what will I be free to do? Why, whatever everyone else thinks I should do, of course!
>No, you'd be free to do what you want, you'd own everything.
Really? Everything? Are you really sure about that. Think that one through a minute.
: If I must give, according to my ability, with nothing to show for my labors other that a collective permission to live, I am hardly free.
>No, because you can reward yourself from the communal goods as you feel is propper, and gain teh respect and recognition of your fellows.
What if my fellows do not think I deserve a reward? What if they think of me as a kulak, a dirty rotten speculator, a show-off who doesn’t deserve the gruel the collective grudgingly allows me? What if they think it should all go to Trixie, because she is so darned cute?
What if, like in the real world, my fellows respect and recognize me only so long as it happens to be in their immediate best interests to do so? What if, the rest of the time, they respect and recognize their family and friends? Do you know nothing about any of the communist failures during the last century? Have you no knowledge of nepotism?
>No, what rubbish, your examples come from Russia, which was a state capitalist regime, tehre would be no bureaucracy, no one would have more than others- teh medieval village simply shows the way in which most human beings have lived communally and co-operatively in history. We're not talking abouit going back, but going forward.
I think I am becoming sick and tired of having my objections to wholesale theft called ‘rubbish’. The Left has come up with numerous ‘get rich quick’ schemes, and have imposed them on me at my expense. Strangely, in my own elitist and callous fashion, I think your ideas are not only rubbish, but actively hostile. Do not be surprised if, as your kind has on numerous occasions, found your persistent attempts to destroy industrial society and civil society met by increasingly hostile levels of ‘elitist reactionary’ resistance.
I am beginning to understand the profound nature of the ‘suxx’ remark.