- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Tom O'Bedlam

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist party, UK ) on March 30, 1999 at 11:31:59:

In Reply to: Earth to Major Tom posted by DrCruel on March 29, 1999 at 14:52:16:

: No, I bloody well have the property now, and won't anymore if you have your way.

Do you, do you own tehf actoeis? Do you own the fields? Do you actually own your house, or are you renting it from the Bank in the form of you mortgage?

: I guess he has been forgotten. "Those who do not study history ..."

No, I know what Makhno was about, and our party ahs ahd to comdemn him often enough to oterh anarchists, etc.

: We do. It's called the government. And it has limits, so that those "polite concerns" don't get out of hand, as they frequently do in socialist states.

'there has never been a Socialist State'.

: Of course. But always, I think of myself as an individual. It is the Other that "mobs"; perhaps this is a legacy of the leftist term "the masses".

T'other way round, actually, the left got it from ethr ight. Anyhow, exactly, but its always 'mobs' that behave irrationally, the Other who will be out of control, if you are a rational individual, and even in a mob you think of yourself as a reational individual, thena ll teh people in teh mob are rational individuals, and so...maybe, just maybe, under the right conditions, we could have a rational mass society.

: Why, then, do the rich steal? A man does not steal to alleviate poverty, he does it to get something he wants, and because he lacks the ethical restraint necessary to work for it.

The rich steal through every pay packet. And our ethics are shaped by the way we live, live in poverty, and be treated as if you don't matter, then otehrs may just not matter much to you...

: I think the police would be quite encumbered in your 'paradise', in any case, given the past reputation of this system.

They'd be abolished.

: Oh, of course. I own everything, and may use it, subject to public approval. I own what others "recognize" I own. Certainly.

No, things will be there for free access, you take as much food from eth common store as you like, etc. As many clothes...

: Why does this sound so similar to state capitalism? Hmm. Or as you would say, erm.

Because you're building a straw man..very pretty tis, too.

: But I thought I needed permission first, from the "others" ... This is sounding more and more fishy.

No permission needed, except everyone's general agreement about where the goods will be kept, what will be produced, etc.

: In the practical application of this system, that 'conscience' frequently takes the form of the People's Revolutionary Tribunal. Are you ready for that Great Leap Forward?

No, It doesn't require any formal mechanism at all, merely your friends knowing what you do well, and appreciating it.

: I meow. I purr. I am furry. I have claws on my paws. I am feline. I birth kittens. But ... I am not a cat. Really. I am actually something rather different. (Probably a tiger. Grrowl.)

No, left wingers are reformists, or such ilk (including trotskyists) we are just socialists.

: Again with that "intention". Then, of course, no one "intends" to actively resist you. You have nothing to fear. D'Abbuisson is your friend.

We have no plan to abolish industrial society, in fact our plans rather require it...

: Careful there. You are "at my level" ...

uh-huh, sucks down here, dunnit.

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