- Capitalism and Alternatives -

The Bennattollah.

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, Uk ) on May 14, 1999 at 16:56:05:

In Reply to: A Green response posted by Samuel Day Fassbinder on May 14, 1999 at 14:35:50:

: SDF: Ask RD before claiming that Leninism has dealt a severe blow to socialist claims to represent something new in politics.

*snarl, snap, bite, claw, rant*

: Joschka Fischer is a conservative masquerading as a Green. Real Greens support the Ten Key Values. Values such as "nonviolence," "grassroots democracy," "social justice," and "decentralization" were supposed to deal with the Joschka Fischers of the world.

Hmmm, Fischer is notorously left-wing? The german greens apparently have a split, much like my beloved second international split between the possiblists and the impossiblists (althought one camp call themselves 'Realists' and tothers are 'Fundamentalists').

Effectively, they are facing the same problems as the left, a La Tony Benn, did in the Labour party over here in the 70's, finding that the constitution is in contradiction with internal party democracy (Fischer said he would not impliment the poliy, and there'd be nothing the party could do about it- save leave government, which would scrap all their other policies, its a hard call). Benn noted the way in which leaders (the greens have no leaders, but the constitution effectively forces on on them) can threaten to resign, whatever....

: SDF: Then why is "grassroots democracy" one of the Ten Key Values?

And how can it work in representative democracy (it can't).

: SDF: Maybe it's that the Greens in power are foolish enough to think that bombing and no action are the only two options.

Maybe they know its a straight choice betwen being in power, and comprimising principles- the first duty of any governmetn is to stay in power, if it must comprimise principles, it means it'll get a few of its policies through at least. How much is power worth?

: SDF: Fischer is not really a Green, as I've said above.

I know many would dispute that, too easy a dissmissal.

: SDF: Ahem, isn't it that these Greens in Germany and France got themselves in trouble by allying themselves with some so-called "socialists"? Who can you trust?

Labour suffered the same fate back in the seventies, its a contradiction between their values and the values intrinsic in the constitution.

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