- Capitalism and Alternatives -

I Want Substance!!!

Posted by: Asarualim on May 23, 1999 at 21:59:10:

In Reply to: ??????? posted by Dark Truth on May 22, 1999 at 23:27:36:

: If you scroll down to april 30th or so and you'll find a strand dedicated to this subject. You'll also find 2 posts submitted by me there. These went unanswered even by the notorious Deep Daddio 9. They express thoroughly where I stand.

I think this is the right one, although i could only find one message that you posted DT.

: Your posts still lack enough content to really support your argument that Ayn was crazy....Or even wrong. Please elaborate.

I didn't make an arguement; it was merely a bait to any Ayn Rand fans out there in cyber space. I'm waiting for someone to state something first and then debate it.

: BTW- Leonard Piekoff has manipulated the objectivist movemnt into a huge money sucking machine that operates in direct conflict to Ayns epistimology. He should be shot.


:No one would ever blame her for plagiarising Hume. No one ever did. :Most philosophic argument is reminiscent of another. This is a given.

Where and when did she plagerize Hume? Somehow I don't see their two philosophes having much in common.

:Lastly I think people are jumping into the deep end w/o an :understandintg the fundamentals of Objectivism to hold on to.
:The fact is that objectivism is very simple and stands in defense of :itself.

:We are thinking cognizant animals.This is a tool that should never be :taken for granted.

:We are responsible for ourselves-only. Integrity to ourselves ond :personal values is king!!! To forsake those values in defference to a :larger group and its supposed need for the greater good is tantamount :to spiritual slavery.

Is democracy slavery? Is taxation theft?

:With these truths being self evident the evolution of man is not :dependance upon on another but interdependence.

Not everyone can fend for themselves or participate in a productive society. There are always the feeble, mentally incompetent, highly disabled, elderly, children, etc. that are unable to take part in much less succeed in a market system. It is the test of a society of what happens to these kinds of people.

:Each of us must use the Values we hold in concert with the greatest :tool we posess to come to terms with reality. Reality is currently :that we live in a land that allows us to weild that tool in order to :make a living. We could of course wait until the current collectivist :group allots us each a task like ditch digging so that we may serve :all mankind...Or we can take the opportunity afforded to us by our :forefathers to Make Own Buy and Sell property. W/O anyone jumping in :telling us that this or that group of bleeding hearts has a much :greater need of your rescources or time. Or that they request that :you change your methods for them.

Or you could wait for the market to allot you a ditch to dig. It doesn't really matter whether its a socialist, capitalist, or something-a-thing-a-mig-ist there will still be ditches needed to be dug. The only criterion is who is benfitting from the activity at large.

:Hypothetical- Pick whom you would believe to be a great :artist...Anybody. Say they were a painter. Would it be appropriate :for me to approach said painter while in the midst of his craft and :demand that he change the style of the paiunting because my :perception of the publics need for art was different than his...and I :had a list of signatures of like requests. Would you honestly expect :the man to change his ways for me ...or anyone?

No, but what's your point? He can continue to paint pictures or do his art to his heart's content but it matters not one whit to the public. If there is a market demand for his artwork, regardless of how poor and trite it may be, he will be highly enriched. Likewise a great artist may go starving because his work is unrecognized or is not valued by the market. By the way, how does one determine the proper value of a work of art anyhow? Seems like monetary values ascribed to art work is some how inappropriate if you ask me.

:Ojectivism is the same thing. It is the art of cognitive thought :manifest in business and trade. It is the religion of the self. To :adore and celebrate the fact that we can make conscious decions that :will shape our futures and our characters forever. Wil we allow the :faceless masses to avert our spirits course?

Yes, Objectivism does seem to very much of a religion with John Galt or Howard Roark as the center god and Ayn Rand as the great apostle or prophet. Many Objectivists or randians seem like little more than religious fanatics than inquisitive spirits. The comparison to religion highlights the irrationality that is often symptomatic of randian reasoning.

:I hope not.

I hope you could provide me with some thoughts on her metaphysics, or epistemology, or ethics, or religious theory, or economics (that make gold the currency again is damn silly stuff), or anything at all. I don't want quotations or poetic aspirations I want some meat!!!

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