- Capitalism and Alternatives -


Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on May 24, 1999 at 18:47:56:

In Reply to: up and away posted by Gee on May 24, 1999 at 14:40:40:

: It was actually! Shame also that the British govt abandoned the gold standard arounf the same time (they are conncted) which caused bank failures, money crises and there is your European connection (infact the British ditching the gold standard scared the US too - who promptly abandoned theirs (ooh what a clever idea mr president), now thats powerful!)

Britain abandonned the Gold Standard during WWI? tried to re-establish it, but eventually gave up coz they couldn't?

: Which seems to be 43% of US salary earners now (if you count stock as such)

How many could live solely upon their investments- a hell of a lot less.

: Then you shouldnt imagine that a libertarian would favor it, except that I suppose any property rights are considered to be a part of the conspiracy (and a dismally ineffective part - considering how those unpleasant 'lower orders' now seem to own so much too)

Its not conspiracyl its structural function- and although they may 'own' much, what they own is very little, and amounts to little above nimoal shares- an alternative to putting money in the bank.

: Capitalism as described by economists like Hayek, Mises, Friedman has never existed - capitalism as described by anyone who looks at a specific set up and decides to call it capitalism would have, ofcourse.

A society dominated by investment of capital does and has existed, a society of common and democratic control of production hasn't.

: And precisely what I would rather not have - this is the source of the evil - not the existance of privately owned capital. Your blaming the existence of the hand for the bruise on someones face, not the act of the puncher.

No, I pointed out, without a world state you cannot have free trade, because turff wars and boundaries over recognition would happen all the time.

: I never saw that - it would have been fun. he doesnt come round anymore anyway, ho-hum, I liked the way frustrated posters used to insult him and I!

Nice reminiscence- anyhow, the point being that teh Mafia are the ultimate laissez faire capitalsits, but even they errupt into war occaisionally over business interests- and I suggest they provide the best functioning model for how anarcho-capitalism would go.

: All people, to be free need to be free from the coercive force of others. when state does more than this it becomes the things we rail against.

So you would accept such a state?

: You can get magazines about that you know!


: Hegel again (and Marx too!). Saying "were getting a bit confused" is not really an argument. Poetry always existed for the market of tastes. there is nothign to stop you fromn writing what others consider crap, but dont expect them to keep you in pens.

No, POetry was once teh preserve of elites, their bards would be patronised at court- Pope was among the first to begin commodifying his poetry, by setting up popular subscriptions for his satires, odd coz he was a devoted anti-capitalist...

: Such people are able to benfit from generosity (would you deny food to them - I wouldnt if I saw their situation as desperate (and they could recover and move back to independance) - but you are in effect saying that anyone who produces food is guilty of not giving it away - whilst the unproductive are not?

No, I am saying that the market has meant that cash crops are grown where food may be better produced, and that teh interests of teh tiny number of owners of land take precedence over the workers (note- people who work on farm fields may starve due to lack of money, despite producing crops themselves...)

: (Actually Ethiopia is an even better example - quasi marxist governments hey, what can ya do with them)


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