- Capitalism and Alternatives -


Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on June 08, 1999 at 17:04:09:

In Reply to: some context for you posted by Gee on June 07, 1999 at 15:34:46:

:If the Second Amendment were to be construed as a collective right, then it logically follows that only corporations or collective bodies (such as political parties) would have a right to free speech, and would be free from unreasonable search and seizures.

No, I'm not positing it as a collective right., I am positing it as an individual right to entry into the militia, no one may be barred from militia service for religious, class or other reasons. The Pople are armed so they *can* form a militia, but without militias around, that foundation disapears, effectively I'm arguing that its an outdated clause.

The rights are individual, but within a social context- in as much as the Fifth assumes a state to which one need not incriminate onself, etc.

: Also note that the Virginia bill of rights was very influential in the US bill of rights - Article 13 of the Virginia Bill of Rights states: "That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power." The idea presupposes a natural right for the citizens to keep and bear arms.

Note, they may all have arms individually, but only in teh context of joining a militia, and the statement about a standing army is central to my argument, the US isn't meant to have one. tehre's nothing tehre to say that the weapons must not be regulated, restricted, or controllled, only that people may have them to run the militia.

: The original language of the Second Amendment as proposed by Madison, read: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well-regulated militia being the best security to a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person."

Again, the main focus is military servitude.

: Thought you might want to see the context.

Indeeed, its exactly what I'm arguing.

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  • nativity Gee si June 08 1999 (1)
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