: Yippee, and you accept that society is only the individuals that make it up - hurrah! ;-)
Never said owt different.
: Where is the control model - an America without guns to prove this contention? Except in examples such as the Orlando one.
Lets call it Canadia! No, they're not American. Any country with roughly equal social stratification and economic standards with gun control would do.
: Now its your turn to avoid the point, just because less people in britain get killed doesnt mean its ok to bar the means to self defence - its like saying "hey, its not like youre walking in the Bronx here, if you get killed you'd have to be real unlucky". Its still disarming victims, just because there are less victims is not an issue, there are no 'acceptable losses'
no, but it does prove that crime and incidence are not related to gun access- over a third of our very low murder rate would still occur, regardless.
: Which in no way is an argument for banning guns. I'm sure people would love to have less crime, but then disarming them because its *less* wont help at all.
Have I actually ever said anything about banning Guns? I just said they were pointless, and that its a waste of breath arguing for them.
: You can argue that the risk of fleeing was too great - ie you are not expected to die trying to escape if the alternative - responding in force - was less risky for you, rare situation i would imagine, but no less admissable.
Correct, a reasonable man would conclude that if tehre was more risk from fleeing (How? I dunno, shopt in the back), then standing your ground was a proportionate responce.
: Enough to ensure your personal safety according to your reasonable judgment. If you got him with a steel bar and broke both his legs he might try and put you in jail claiming just a big bruise would have been enough - like you could guage that at the precise terror stricken moment.
If I ahd searched out a steel bar, was judged capable of defending myself without it, then I would be knacked, if I grabbed in in panic, without premediation (premediatuion: the difference between smashing the bottle over their head, or taking the time to smash it and stab them with it...) and beat him, I'd be OK. A reasonable man would think.