- Capitalism and Alternatives -

People of Goodwell predisposed to reason dont refer to their opponents views as

Posted by: Lark on June 24, 1999 at 15:05:56:

In Reply to: Communist crap posted by Enemy of the New World Order on June 22, 1999 at 12:50:14:

: Socialism has at its heart, a globalist vision.

Socialism has an INTERNATIONALIST vision, certainly we seek to cultivate a society in which people have a humanistic empathy with their fellow human beings and divisive nationalism, which is fundamentally single identity, exclusive, and in it's worst formats authoritarian, supremist and xenophobically racist, has no part in it.

:Like it or not, most countries are adopting socialist systems of government.

Really? I presume you are debating from a fairly extreme position to consider the cowardly governments of the centre-left/centre right socialistic at all.

:Take for example the continent of europe where I can't think of a non-socialist government. This movement has pervaded International laws on human rights and is consistently supported by the media.

You make it sound like an egalitarian and libertarian paradise my friend by sadly you are mistaken, an ethical liberal hegemony exists in Europe at best at worst you choose between the authoritarian right and left each with their holy texts and revered leaderships. All of which is antithetical to the creation of Humanist Identity, Free Thought and socially disposed yet individually conscious individuals.

: Capitalism is the best system. It isn't a perfect system, but it does provide for individualism and invention.

Capitalism? An economic system gives you individualism and invention? How strange your thinking like a Marxist as though the economic basis of society determined directly everything else, including will, I however disagree with Marxist determinism. What you own your understanding of individualism to, whether it is a humanistic individualism empathic with others particualrly the excluded and least in society, as I espouse, an ethical but self-centred individualism as Gee espouses or the full blown possive individualism of conventional society you owe more to the political and philosophical projects and pursuits of the enlightenment.

Invention is not undertaken in the pursuit of profit alone, what of recognition, the benefit it could provide for one self and society at large, fame all none economic factors alone.

:Both of these are stifled under a socialist (communist) system.

Socialism and communism are not synominous, one means to each according to need (communism) and the other to each according to work (socialism) I consider myself a socialist and not a communist because I believe communism, total selflessness, must be totally voluntary, free or not at all it is therefore a matter between friends and family and not systematic. Socialism however is the greatest ethical use of institutes and consenting individuals to effect humanistic ends between all peoples the familiar and the stranger.

:The old adage that power corrupts, but that absolute power corrupts absolutely is especially true of the socialistic international order and its attempts to undermine the nation state.

This power corrupts thing I agree entirely that is why we must be eternally vigilant, empathise with indiviuals and people not institutes or economic systems, and only invest relative trust in democratic mechanism, which should be made more democratic at any opportunity, yet I am a socialist.

A question friend the nation state has power, the business has even greater power, the employer has power over the involuntary employee (we are all made involuntary employees by the culture of work and the need for money that pervades modern society), when does power not corrupt? Why are you exercising a blind spot?

: Stalin and Hitler were both socialists. How many people died when they seized absolute power?

They where certainly both statists. This is why I hate categorisation, take myself I call myself socialist some people are horrified they think I'm a political luddite or worse a stalin lover, that Gee he may call himslef an anarchist people will think he's the next Timothy McVeigh. How did this happen well people dont empathise with others they empathise with systems or property or states them they accept or exploit for credential labels to gain support, this is like wrong, and like straight forward.

Cheers, hope you'll stick around for a debate.


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