- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Equality of Opportunity = Equality of Outcome.

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on July 01, 1999 at 15:34:06:

In Reply to: the equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity. posted by Capitalist Pig on July 01, 1999 at 01:46:51:

: a) A good amount I hope since the return is better, and being in the investment industry I manage that money.

Uh-huh. So thats not a big change then, really...workers don't suddenly have more money.

: Sure, All they need is money. Even the unemployed.

uh-huh, but the unemployed would have enough cash in hand (or credit rating) to invest, and them as have work rely on that work to get the investment sum?

: Some, they are usually called retirees.

But that amount has been accumulated solely off the basis of their earnings, i.e. they've had to work to get that money. A Pension isn't quite living off investments.

: Others, are working towards that day. Is it me or isnt this obvious?

No, because thats teh difference between working class and capitalist class- teh working class have to sell their labour power to get money, whereas the capitalist class just invest capital to get more money, and thus need never work.

: Actually there are many millionares out there. Many are average people who invested with discipline in their 401k plans (a self directed retirement plan)

Uh-huh, but millionaires are now relative to the billionaires? yes? And Millionaires are still a minority of the population.

: I thought you asked the questions and i gave the answers.

Its called rhetoric.

: Tell that to the workers of many companies for example microsoft, walmart, and home depot who have participated in esops (employee stock ownership plans and are either or are on there way to becoming millionares.

A tiny minority, and many other firms with 'profit sharing schemes' are simply using the scheme to prop up wages, etc.

: duh, if you owned 51% of the company would you want someone who had less than 1% to have an equal say. Or to put it in your convuluted thinking if someone invested capital representative of there lifetime worth of labor into a company, should it be the same as someone who put in capital equivalent to only a few hours worth of their labor?

So, then, its not democracy.

: No pensions or investment firms merely manage the money they do not own it.

But they *control* it. Which is important.

: As usual you are obsessed with the equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity. Socialism guarantees the equal suffering of all. unless of course you are of the ruling class.

1:Equality of opportunity would result in equality of outcome.
2:Socialism gaiurantees the equality of benefits.
3:Socialism means the abolition of all classes.

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