- Capitalism and Alternatives -

On forward planning.

Posted by: Red Deathy ( Socialist Party, UK ) on September 02, 1999 at 14:30:28:

In Reply to: trying to push a string posted by bill on September 02, 1999 at 11:29:54:

: While I share the trust and idea that the people are perfectly capable of enacting a system, a people who share a vision are much less apt to have that system co-opted by liars.
I don't know, but were it not for the fascists of Spain and Germany, as well as the Communists, the experiment in Spain might have lasted a lot longer than the Paris Commune - primarily because the people on the ground had a good idea of where they wanted to go Before the revolution.

I agree, see, I think the point, possibly lost to history, is that marx assumed that since the Idea of Socialism came from the workers themselves (he did *not* invent communism), and that pretty much everyone knew what socialism itself was/meant, that he didn't need to describe it or plan.

Just to return to Freddie: "For the basic plan of their new Edifice [the Utopians] they could only appeal to reason, just because they could not as yet appeal to history."

"We delight in the inspired ideas and germs of ideas which emerge through their covering of phantasy" inlsuing Saint-Simon's "breadth of vision and genius, thanks to which almost all the ideas of the later socialists which are not strictly economic can be found in embryo." (Bloch citing Engels from the latter's ANTI-DÜRING in THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE FUTURE).

My point is that M&F considered themselves parts of the same movement of the utopians, and their critique of utopianism was not of the same sort as dished out by the Stalinists (see the postings of Red-Wasp). they saw the material movement of the working class as bearing these ideas, and brining them into fruition...

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