- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Take a history course

Posted by: Samuel Day Fassbinder ( Citizens for Mustard Greens, USA ) on October 04, 1999 at 10:52:31:

In Reply to: supernatural. posted by Frenchy on October 03, 1999 at 19:50:16:

: It sounds as if your saying that if it hadn't been for Capitalism then Socialism/Communism could well have succeded.

SDF: Say, isn't Cuba hampered by this thing called an "embargo"?

: Capitalism went to war with Socialism/Communism and forced the Soviets to spend money on defence rather then consumer goods.

SDF: 1) Since the Soviet Union had, by that time, enough in nuclear weapons to destroy human civilization, nobody was "forcing" it to spend money on defense after, say, 1980 -- but there is such a thing as prestige.

2) A society devoted to the spending of money is not "Socialism/Communism". The main point of writing Capital for Marx was to show that ending capitalism means abolishing money.

: But what about the Nazi's attack on Russia? The Nazi's weren't Capitalists.

SDF: I suppose the Nazi subsidy to the Krupp family fortune, etc. is only a tiny flaw in this fallacious assumption?

Russia had an obligation to defend itself and it's citizens.

: But even before the Nazis, the Soviets were liquidating the kulaks in Georgia, to the tune of millions.
: Where was the external threat then?

SDF: You don't suppose the involvement of the major capitalist countries in the Russian civil war of 1917-1923, with the US sending 50,000 troops to Siberia, really happened, do you?

: The same could be asked of the ChiComs. Were they being threatened by Capital when Mao launched his Great Leap Forward?

SDF: I don't suppose the US possessed nuclear weapons or was threatening "Red China" with obliteration back then?

: Wasn't that just a technique to consolidate power and root out 'capitalist-roaders'?

SDF: How do you suppose the above societies industrialized?

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