- Capitalism and Alternatives -

To the AUTHORITY on Socialism, your going to find I'm anti-authority.

Posted by: Lark on October 18, 1999 at 14:44:18:

In Reply to: Is Lark a socialist? posted by Barry Stoller on October 17, 1999 at 17:46:41:

: Stoller:
: Maybe you have a better understanding of Lark's position than I do. Frankly, I'm bewildered by some of the stuff he says.

Right Barry, I'd have prefered you asked me rather than speaking among those you perceive as the "true believers" behind my back.

: I based my above comment on Lark’s statement: 'if you join a political party you've got to know the party line and be OBEDIENT, you lose your FREE WILL, [so] don't be a bloody joiner.' Or, as he stated more precisely: 'Fuk all the parties, you make the revolution for yourself.'

: This is libertarianism!

Your right it is, is it incompatible with socialism? If I remember correctly Socialism is a mix of Libertarianism, Egalitarianism, reason and morality, perhaps I'm wrong but then definitions differ and I feel no need to CONFORM to yours so feel to disagree with me.

: Then he elaborated: 'Well I am a Socialist and I generally dont see anything great about the workingclass at all, most marxists etc. think the workingclass are a bunch of saints, if they didn't revel in anti-intellectualism and fascistic behavior I'd see your point but since that's not the case...'

This religiousity about the working class disturbes me because I dont see any of it in the real world. This is my position, it's not likely to change, it doesnt mean I dont believe there is a class war being waged on working people, just that they dont organise as a class, if party membership is the organisational category, other than in the support of right wing ideology.

: And finally: '[O]ne of the good things about capitalism is that it is innovative in fields like entertainment, where there any Playstations in the USSR? What about MTV?'

: If there are 'Playstations' and MTV in his utopia, I'm sure the pubs can't be far behind!

What kind of vision have you? I'm thinking about the reasons why people in the east saw the west as such a utopia that they over turned state communism and aside from political liberty etc. I suspect the thriving entertainment industry had something to do with it, where as all they could do was attend authoritarian military parades.

: If you can clarify any of the above, I'll be more than happy to hear it. Because, at this point, I am not very confident Lark is a socialist at all.

I dont care if you dont think I qualify as a Socialist or CONFORM to your definition, you can join the list of trots and other marxists that dont think I am a socialist, is this a characturistic of Marxism to hacker after conformity?

:Indeed, I'd say that he just picks and chooses from differing ideologies to suit his many different moods.

It's hardly to suit my moods but I develop my views by picking form different ideologies because, with the exception of chauvinistic creeds like fundamentalism or facism, I think the ideologists where sincere and I can empathise while constructively criticising their ideas.

Broadly the principal of defended the very least against oppression regardless of the author or victim is all I need.

:Which is exactly the sort of 'mish-mash' Engels criticized so succinctly in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

This sounds more like the church of Marx than political discourse, lose the conformist vision.

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup