- Capitalism and Alternatives -

I can see Marxism doing nothing for anyone because it has a real tendency towards dogmatism

Posted by: Lark on October 22, 1999 at 15:03:22:

In Reply to: Socialism fantasy free. posted by Stoller on October 21, 1999 at 22:23:27:

Right Barry if I've some how insulted you I'm sorry but in general I can see Marxism doing nothing for anyone because it has a real tendency towards dogmatism and is more or less grounded in Hegelian mumbo jumbo.

: : Free associations of producers would provide commodities to anyone who could pay for them. Work is seperated from remmuneration yes.

: Again: WITHOUT the working class?

Who are the working class Barry? This isnt the era of the first international people arent entering parliament, or congress, wearing cloth caps with mandates from the factory workers.

If you are insisting that there must be an "actor" in the bringing about of Socialism, rather than my view that is once every individual is convinced of the fact that Socialism is necessary for the survival of mankind not that it's intrinsically good or bad but can be either, then I would have to agree with Bakunins views about class struggle.

That is that gypsies, small farmers etc. those with the least to lose are the most likely to support radical change not the workers who have an interest in getting rich etc. this is half the proletariat the other half is the intellectual proletariat, intelligent people from the richer classes willing to go against capitalism.

I'll give you a reference you might appreciate, I found it a bit heavy going but it is Marxism rather than mere socialism, "Farewell to the Working Class" by Andri Gorz.

: : : You haven't envisioned any sort of socialism other than a naive utopian one:


: Hence, a mish-mash allowing the most manifold shades of opinion; a mish-mash of such critical statements, economic theories, pictures of future society by the founders of different sects, as excite a minimum of opposition; a mish-mash which is the more easily brewed the more the definite sharp edges of the individual constituents are rubbed down in the stream of debate, like rounded pebbles in a brook.
: (Engels, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, Interantional 1935, p. 44)


: : This, of course, makes it illegitimate?

: No, it just makes it a fantasy.

Which is illegitimate to the mind of a big old scientist like yourself, you may disagree with me, feel free, however I'd appreciate it, a lot, if you didnt try to put me out of the socialist camp and especially if you didnt put me in Borgs camp.

Follow Ups:

The Debating Room Post a Followup