- Capitalism and Alternatives -

You sound like King George in 1775

Posted by: Barry Stoller on October 25, 1999 at 11:21:27:

In Reply to: Care to give us poor ignorant folks solid examples of a flourishing Marxist state? posted by Frenchy on October 25, 1999 at 01:11:07:

'[S]ocialism calls for a conscious mass advance to greater productivity of labor compared with capitalism, and on the basis achieved by capitalism.'
---Lenin, emphasis added.

: Care to give us poor ignorant folks solid examples of a flourishing Marxist state?

There are none at this time.

The primary reason is that---according to Marx and history as we know it---socialism cannot flourish in nations that have little or no capital development.

The Marxist vision, if I may be so bold, posits that each form of civilization, each mode of production, has a corresponding relation of production. For example, the feudal mode of production produced certain types of relations between people (i.e. serf/master); the bourgeois mode of production produced another type (worker/boss); and, finally, the socialist mode of production will produce yet another (a merger of worker and boss in each person). Each mode of production produces its own ideology that proclaims the current relations of production to be inevitable, proper, indispensable, and---above all---unchangeable.

The grand historical irony of the 20th century, in my opinion, has been the tendency for the poorest nations to attempt to adopt Marxist states.

Only the U.S.S.R.---through the super-cruel policies of Stalin---was able to industrialize. They quickly became a nation that could 'compete' with the U.S., which required centuries to reach a comparable level of industrial development. The problem of the U.S.S.R., put simply, was that this accelerated process of development occurred without the accompanying adoption of Marxist principles (such as job rotation).

The future of socialism has yet to be glimpsed.

To declare it impossible---as King George declared democracy impossible when the American colonies rebelled against English rule---would be premature.

: By the by, I seem to recall that the Trotskyites gave their approval of the Russians who goosestepped into Czechoslovakia and murdered something like 30,000 people.

Funny debating you Frenchy. One day you know nothing about Trotsky, the next day you're an expert. Be a better expert and do a bit more reading on Trotsky---then get back to me.

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