- Capitalism and Alternatives -

So you've changed your views?

Posted by: Lark on October 25, 1999 at 15:32:52:

In Reply to: hmmm. posted by Gee on October 25, 1999 at 13:12:13:

: The term should be what it is - liberalism.

So Keynes, Hobson, Hobhouse, T.H. Green, T.H. Marshall, John Rawls what are these self-proclaimed liberals?

: : : :That is fine as far as it goes, admirable even, but I can't perform such acts on a global, national or even more than local scale.

: No one can. Get some budies though and before you know it your out there helping a whole village - now think about why youre not trying to get this done right now? Its because you believe your time is better spent elsewhere - you value the alternatives more.

The facts are Gee that I've done this in the past and probubly will in the future, like I said I dont think you'd just go along with the system of China or Cuba uncritically if it was established in the US so why suggest that it's the most logical thing for me to do?

: : I've read in great depth these ideas Gee from the Charity Organisation Society in the nineteenth century right up to the neo-tory think tanks and the problem remains the same you might aswell put a bandaid on a cancer. The theory is broadly that cohesion and co-operation can bring about a classless society while maintaining the inequality and capitalist mechanism to provide rewards for the industrious, this is what the third way is about,however it's totally schitzo to suggest that at one time ruthless competition is fine, encouragable, and the next not good enough.

: What it does is demonstrate to you what people's values are. Youre not out there helping folk right now because *you* are choosing to do something else which *you* consider to be a better. Blaming capitalism is avoiding.

Really? That would be like me saying to a capitalist in Cuba or China why arent you Capitalist? Dont suggest that there arent very real constraints.

:Anyone who earns a wage suffient to meet basic needs (just about everyone in the west) can spare the rest for 'help' and just about anyone, you included, can spare time - and every time you choose not to, say to yourelf "I am choosing x rather than y because I value X over y", all without blaming systems and institutions. try that out for interesting thoughts.

Lost it here Gee, cant really be bothered with this argument at all really come to think of it, it's incredibly boring debating with people who worship a one dimensional social order and try to integrate me into it even though I resist.

: : So what Gee? I dont consider all authority bad, just as you dont, just totally unaccountable authority like business and the upper ecolones of the state. You however want an oligarchal dictatorship which is very libertarian.

: No Lark, your just assuming - this could have been a post from a year ago.

So you've changed your views?

: Lets stick with the interesting stuff - why people do and dont do these things.

That's interesting?

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