- Capitalism and Alternatives -

who is going to pay for something others can benefit from?

Posted by: Lark on November 05, 1999 at 15:45:23:

In Reply to: In capitalism the consumer is in charge. posted by DonS on November 03, 1999 at 13:41:07:

: Ask NJ. He is the one claiming success for these short-term experiments.

No, I'm asking you, you think that Capitalism and Facism where/are success stories but in Capitalism we see gross poverty and inequality which, according to my reading of Adam Smith etc., isnt supposed to happen and as for facism being a success the holocaust never succeed, the victory centric imperialist notions of hitler and Mussolini never worked they couldnt even maintain their miserable regimes so I dont see how they have succeeded.

: Don: Yet all these capitalist decisions are based upon the desires of the consumer. In capitalism the consumer is in charge.

Ah, so what you are suggesting is that the market is a perfect democracy? Well two points:

A) the gross inequalities in wealth equal unequal shares of "the vote", the rich can rule (just look at who the politicians try not to offend it isnt the poor or disabled in reciept of benefits Blair is abolishing invalidity benefits and reversing provision for their needs and he consults the Rich Mans Trade Union, the Confederation of British Industry, in the process)consume and I assume, according to your assertion, direct and plan the economy and everyone else can follow their orders, invisible dictatorship rather than perfect democracy.

B) The classical definition of the market no longer exists, there is a trend away from competition toward cartelism and eliteism, there are increased barriers to entry and entry and exit costs for would be competitors. In these circumstances how can you suggest the market responds to need when it effectively doesnt exist?

: : Paper improvements? You mean improvements that couldnt be provided by the market even in it's imaginary and logical utopian variety, I mean who's going to provide widescale free vacinations in a profiteer motivated order? No one the effect we all die, the few that survive contract mutated varieties of the disease and die too.

: Don: That must be why everyone in the US died before the turn of the century.

Lots more people died than do at present. It doesnt have to result in death either, needless suffering could be avoided, Here's a few more examples of where the market fails:

Public costs or expenses, a company pollutes the atmosphere to make short term profits, in the era of unfettered competition, everyone does likewise and in the long term the environment, that we are dependant on, is destroyed.

Goods that arent strickly consumed by the solitary individual, such as street lighting, who is going to pay for something others can benefit from? So the market wont provide it.

: : My God is that MARKET FAILURE echoing through this debate room?!

: Don: Sounded like the failure of socialism to me.

Well you do have clinics in the US that could treat that ear infection or whatever it is that has caused you to go deaf.

: Don: Sankara's regiem lasted what, 4 years max. Both Hitler and Franco lasted longer.

Oh, so you appreciate violent powermongering death dealing dictatorship, you consider it a success story, you really are a strange libertarian Don, have you read anything other than Rattlesnake "Dont Step on Me" propaganda recently?

:As far as Sankara's decency and morality, I sure not going to take that on NJ's word.

Well, then again you can check this out.

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