: : ON CENTRAL AMERICA
: Don: I don't have evidence on hand. I read about this stuff back in the '80s and early '90s. When I have time I will drop by a library and see if I can find this stuff. Perhaps next weekend. If you have some refutations of these alligations handy, put them up. I'd like to see them.
Qx:If you can cite them then that would be great. However, there seems to be a bit of deliberate negligence when it comes down to mainstream US media covering Central America.
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: : ON BIG OL' JET AIRLINERS
: : : Don: Or designing an airliner. Perhaps you should shop around for an airliner that was designed *without* reason.
: : Qx: Designing an airliner eh? How about those Airbus jets that operate on swivel sticks instead of having a steering wheel? Faith in computerization can be pretty onerous. So can faith in free trade but it can many optimistic about their shopping prospects.
: Don: I assume you are talking about fly-by-wire. Yet you avoid the issue--would you fly in a plane that wasn't designed with reason?
Qx: I haven't avoided the issue at all. The airbus is built with reason in mind but with that kind of reason (sophistry in the service of maximized profits) who needs a steering wheel? Perhaps the top executives considered computer malfunction to be unthinkable.
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: : ON FARMING
: : : Don: So do all the people modern US farms feed worldwide.
: : Qx: And at what cost?
: Don: At a low cost compared to the benifits. At such a low cost, our fascist government still feels the need to pay farmers not to grow crops.
<>font color="red">Qx:You're skirting the issue of farm labor, which isn't very high paying (to say the least). The labor struggle in the agricultural sector of the US economy is immense but most people don't understand the true human costs. They don't really take a hard look at other US exports either.BTW, the Clinton Administration is hardly "fascist". Corporatists? Yes but there are other reasons.
: :Qx:Also, by using the word "modern" do you mean corporate?
: Don: Not, I mean using scientific methods. Which you should have been able to figure out from the context of our little debate. Oh, yes, you eschew reason.
Qx: Again, you come up with another straw man. I do not eschew reason but you have to be selective but we can understand. It's your trademark. Anyways, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
You've missed the point big time but then should anyone here be surprised? What I'm really noting is the isolation of reason. In other words, the obsession we have in the West with this idea that reason is *the great quality*. We've replaced God the father with reason, basically. Reason is a wonderful human quality, but it's just one of the human qualities and it's by putting it up on a pedestal all by itself that we've cause it to do the opposite of what it ought to be doing. We've turned it into unreason.
By putting any human quality in power in isolation, you automatically make it do the opposite of what it's intended to do, because it isn't supposed to be in isolation, because we aren't people of only one quality -- any more than in our normal lives. In other words, humans are not one dimensional beings. Why would we design our whole life around life around one single intellectual concept when there are lots of others? I can list six qualities which are: common sense,creativity, ethics, intuition, memory, and reason. Anybody can contribute more faculties here for discussion but my main point here is that reason is just one of many faculties. It should notbecome a cult of adoration such as seen here or even here
ON MEDICAL CARE & HMOs
: : : Don: HMOs resulted from government programs to pay for medical care. It is indeed a failure, the type of failure typical when governments try to plan and regulate industry. It is fact a good example the the consequences of applying centralized planning.
: : Qx: Yes indeed. It's applied centralized planning at the behest of the insurance industry which itself is in the business of selling fear and exists solely to make profits.
: Don: It's overpriced because of government controls put in place because of medicare.
Qx: And what do you think will happen if there are no controls. I don't totally agree with the views on this website but this article is particularly illuminating. If you dare to read from a Marxist-Humanist journal. Go ahead and filter out the references to Marx and other bits of jargon and perhaps you will understand.
: : Qx: Modern medicine is very good if you don't mind paying extremely high medical bills. That's the American way but the rest of the world knows better. So much for compassion.
: Don: We pay overpriced medical bills because of medicare's effect on healthcare economics. The price of socialized medice is even greater, in the form of high taxes, stiffled economics, and poor quality health care.
Qx: And yet there are better arguments than yours. yes...there really are.
ON CENTRAL AMERICA
: Don: My assertion re Central America is based upon newspaper and other media sources I read at the time of occurance. I don't know of any sources of this information on the internet. Most newspapers don't have archives posted that go back that long. I will try to find some of this next time I have some time to go to a university library on the weekend.
Qx: Man oh man! People really need to cite their sources when taking the pro-capitalist line.