- Capitalism and Alternatives -

And look how shite that free market was

Posted by: Lark on November 10, 1999 at 12:44:35:

In Reply to: Medicare destroyed the free market that existed in medicine. posted by DonS on November 10, 1999 at 10:32:50:

I really thought I was addressing Gee there, Oh well, here Gee I hope that's not you suffering from a multiple personality disorder!

: : : Well - Think of a personal example - would you rather your doctors make all the decisions about your medical treatment by themselves or do you think the local townsfolk should have their say too when it comes to dosages and surgery? I think you get the point of the above.

: Don: Gee makes a very good point.

Indeed it is intrusion and authoritarianism isnt exactly conducive to freedom but we see what it has to do with the way in which health care is administered.

: : That's really, really interesting that you should say that I'm currently enthusiastically studying the mess your health care systems are in. In the beginning, that is prior to reform not in the 'genesis' sense or anything, the private market in health care consisted of a seperate health provider, hospitals and doctors, and insurance/financial provider. As a reuslt there was gross over supply or services and treatment and dragged out procedures because it was good for profits.

: Don: In fact, our "problems" are based in our federalized medical system medicare. Medicare destroyed the free market that existed in medicine. It allowed doctors to charge pretty much what they wanted, since the taxpayer, not the patient, paid the bills.

I'm afraid Don, if you'd even read what I'd posted or perhaps the documentation and books written around the creation of HMO's (I dont think that's exactly the same as medicare and medicaid) instead of scanning over something that appeared to a defense of state welfare a spewed out some unqualified propaganda you'd have found that was generally the case in your holy free market aswell.

When people are purchasing welfare what is there to stop the supplier from over supplying or carrying out long procedures when short ones would suffice or prevent the inefficient use of resources? The market alone has proven it cant. Competition between hospitals wont bring about a better service either because hospitals arent like regular commodities they are fixed in place and people will attend them that's closest etc.

: : An attempt to reform this was made by trying to, assisting doctors to, become financers and treaters at once, combining the role and hey presto removing the market failures. The problem was that the Doctors where good at being doctors not capitalists/financers so rather than the doctors 'growing' financial wings, the capitalists/financers grew medical 'wings'.

: : So what? you say, the public, my neighbours, church, community dont have a say in my treatment, true, true but the financers and capitalists do, people without medical experience who's primary concern is profiteering not curing you are going to make decisions about how you are treated. If a doctor is not in favour of particular treatments or aware of and advocates seperate treatments which are not popular in the mainstream, because of cost or something, but safe he can be excuded from employment with certain firms (I think they're called HMO's, I'm really going to pass my exams arent I?), through clauses in contracts for employment that require conformity with the aims and views of the company, and consider the fact that Health Care displays an ever increasing tendency towards cartelism and monopoly through merger and you left with little choice in the matter, unless you want to travel to europe.

: Don: The HMOs evolved as government began to regulate healthcare because of medicare "fraud". The real medicare fraud was perpatrated by the government when it set up medicare in the 60s.

HMO's evolved as the market proved further and further culpable to failure and there is no other reason, no statist conspiracy nothing DEAL WITH IT PLEASE!!!

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