- McDonald's -

Ignoring the ugly truth won't make it go away. (better version)

Posted by: MDG on February 14, 19100 at 20:31:16:

In Reply to: Let's 'twist' again... posted by Lars on February 14, 19100 at 18:48:14:

: (Thank you LEJ! // Lars)

: Hi MDG!

: You know how to compare apples with pears! You twist your words around and ignore both your historic and genetic past.

Examples, please. Simply asserting I twist your words may be fun and easy, but without proof, it's simply empty rhetoric.

:You have done that in all your answers to me and now you're doing it again.

I point out where you are wrong and/or inconsistent. Don't go crying that I'm "twisting" your words. That's not debating, that's whining.

:You will be unnormal as long as you keep away from meat!

My god, that's a ridiculous assertion. You mean, if I don't participate in brutalizing and killing animals for a product (meat) which I don't need, and which I'm healthier without, I'm not normal?
What's normal to you, Lars: indifferent to animal suffering, unhealthy eating, indifference to environmental devastation? You have a WEIRD view of normality, my friend.

:That is a fact!

No, that is your opinion.

:From your own (what you think high) moral standards, you through disgust over everyone that have another opinion than you.

I'm disgusted with people who eat meat but ignore the reality of the brutality and animal suffering which results in their meat. At least face up to the consequences of what you're doing; don't be a coward or a liar.

:That shows what kind of person you are.

I have principles; sorry if they disturb you. I can make nice and pretend I agree with you, but this is a debating board, so if you can't accept contrary viewpoints, go somewhere else.

:I can't talk for vegans overall, but I agree fully with LEJ that some of you (at least you MDG) seem to be obsessed. You are a rare case!

You and LEJ seem to believe that if you shut your eyes and wish real hard, the ugly truth will go away. Sorry, Lars, but that's not how it works. No matter how much you wish it were otherwise,animals suffer terribly just for you and LEJ to eat their flesh. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is the philosophy of cowards. Or, to be more charitable, wishing bad things would just go away is what children do. Which one are you, Lars: coward, or child?

: We have been all-eaters from the day we sat "arrived" on this earth.

You don't believe in moral evolution and moral progress. Since we "arrived" on this Earth we've gone through many changes, including doing away with the notion that might makes right. If you want to go back to the caveman days, Lars, meet me outside and I'll hit you on the head with a club and steal your belongings. After all, that's how it used to be.

:That, and the fact that you need "essentials" that (natural) only can be found in meat is a proof that your body disagrees with you.

Funny how I and millions of vegetarians/vegans around the world continue to stay alive despite not eating meat. I guess all these
world class vegetarian athletes are just pretending to be healthy.

:This is nothing but the real truth, but go on ignoring facts, you seem to be used to do that.

LOL! I and other animal rights activists point out the misery behind meat production, and you accuse us of ignoring the facts! That would be funny if it weren't so sad, Lars. Hey, here's an idea. Go tell Amnesty International that they're obsessed with death and torture; when they give you documentation of torture and genocide from around the world, tell them they're ignoring reality and twisting your words.

: Why do you "through in" arguments about environmenal issues? What have you done for the nature?

Why does it bother you so much that I point out how harmful meat production is to the planet?

:You want to bread crops all over in order to feed the starving. Isn't that to destroy both animal life and the nature? We don't have much wilderness left. Now suddenly is human life valued more than animals, but not then it comes to food. That's double "standards".

Now you're the one twisting words. I never said people don't need to eat. What I did say is that meat production ruins our environment, while switching to a vegetarian diet would enable us to a feed more people. Using the land more efficiently would thus provide more habitat for animals and save their lives as well. This is hardly a double standard, and you know it. Stop playing dumb, Lars.

: I understand why people (the most of them) becomes vegetarians, but as long as you (vegans like you) through disgust at the "normal" people, you will only be some a "bad joke". Your own links (factory farm) show how obsessed you are. Do you have pictures like that on your walls too?

Yes, Lars! In fact, my house is covered with wallpaper of suffering animals. I also hit my head with a hammer every morning just for kicks! You know, I thought you might actually be open-minded enough to face up to the facts of the meat industry, but I see instead that you're openly antagonistic to the truth -- you're the bad joke here.

: Of course you can find abused animals at slaugherhouses (I'm sorry for that!),

If you were sorry, you'd give up eating meat (you're like the person who says, "I'm sorry children in Pakistan are forced to work like slaves to make those rugs, but gee, those rugs are so pretty I just can't stop buying them!). Hypocrite.

:as you can find abused children in homes (I'm sorry for that too!). But I believe that what you need is good legislation around breading and slaughtering of animals.

We are hard at work trying to get such legislation, but it's people like YOU who make it so hard to achieve success. In the end, it comes down to people like you making the choice that you will not support cruelty to animals and therefore, you'll give up meat. Will you do that? How "sorry" are you really?

:Because we (the most humans) will always be normal and that means eating a fare consisting partly of meat. Why? Because we're humans and that is what humans eat.

Vegetarians are humans who have made the decision not to eat meat. You can make that decision too, you know (or does being "normal" mean you no longer have the capacity to make moral choices?).

: I'm glad that there is only few of you, as I am that there is so many of us (all-eaters).

Your victory is suffering animals. Some victory...

:We have different moral standards, and that is the main difference (I think) between you and me, and everything else (our views) are a result of that.

No argument there.

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