- McDonald's -

Clutching at straws

Posted by: Lars on February 15, 19100 at 13:23:57:

In Reply to: Wrong again. posted by MDG on February 13, 19100 at 18:56:50:

Who is insulting who? Is it insulting to you when somebody complains against your bad manner and abusive words? Then I'm sorry for you!

We are geneticly coded to eat meat. That's true!
Historicly we're meat-eaters. That's true!

You have "misread" the reports if you think that it's the abstaining from meat that gives less cancer, heart disease, etc. It is the fat, "bad" cocking, other ingredients etc., that makes people sick, not the meat itself. One of the major causes to heart-diseases is obesity. But you don't need to be overweight just because you eat meat.

If you, for instance, compare the french people with americans, the french suffer much less from heart-disease than the americans. Why? The french people eat alot of meat, alot of fat, etc. Why doesn't they suffer in extent they "should"? Is it the wine? Is it the "frog legs"? Is it the fact that the fat they eat are more "vegetable"? Or is it because they live a less stressed life? The reason is probably that more factors than only one may be involved. You can't take out one single factor and call it the answer.

One of the most important things, if you want to be scientific, is to be critical. To look at weak points of the reports. Every now and then, they therefore do reviews over a "whole bunch" of reports and scientific studies, in order to "find the truth". One of my references was just a review like that (comparing 12 previous studies), and that review showed no significant correspondance betweeen meat and cancer. A single report has almost never the whole answer, even if it can be an important clue. The only thing your reports show is that the meat-eaters as a group is un-healthier compared to vegetarians as a group. In order to find out if it's the meat that does the "bad stuff" you write about, you need to study groups in a way that make you study the meat and nothing else.

Alot of all-eaters eat healthy and are as healthy as any vegetarian, even though meat is part of their "fare". My references partly deals with this fact, does yours? And the scientific community agrees (in my opinion) about; both the fact that vegetarians as a group are healthier, and the fact that meat (itself) is not to blame.

I don't misunderstand, I understand that you take every straw (however weak) in order to show that you are right. Wake up and understand that you are "living on lie". Eat meat!

At the bottom is the recommendation from FDA. Of course those recomendations include meat. But you probably think FDA is bought by the meat industry? As everyone that doesn't agree with you? (You have accused me for that)

// Lars

BMJ 1999;319:186 ( 17 July )
A Stewart Truswell, Professor of human nutrition.
Whether meat is a risk factor for cancer remains uncertain.

"We found that since the report by the Committee on Medical Aspects of Food and Nutrition Policy two more prospective studies have failed to show an association of meat intake with colorectal cancer. There are now 12 prospective studies reporting meat intake and subsequent large bowel cancer, but in only two was a significant association found. Even in these the association was weak (relative risk <2.0) and seen only in people with the highest fifth of meat intake. These two studies come from groups in the United States.

As well as this accumulation of mostly negative prospective studies, a multinational combined report of five follow up studies of vegetarians and socially matched omnivore controls (total 76 000 subjects) found the relative risk of colorectal cancer in the vegetarians to be 0.99 (indistinguishable from 1.00). This is as near as we are likely to get to randomised controlled trials of meat eating. "

"Meat is the major source of available iron, vitamin B-12, zinc, and protein in Britain and most other affluent countries."


U. S. Food and Drug Administration
FDA Consumer
April 1992


What should Americans eat to stay healthy? These guidelines, published by the U.S. departments of Agriculture and Health and Human Services, reflect recommendations of nutrition authorities who agree that enough is known about the effect of diet on health to encourage certain dietary practices.

The guidelines are:

Eat a variety of foods.
Maintain a healthy weight.
Choose a diet low in fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol.
Choose a diet with plenty of vegetables, fruits, and grain products.
Use sugars only in moderation.
Use salt and sodium only in moderation.
Children and adolescents should not drink alcoholic beverages.

The Dietary Guidelines suggest at least the following number of servings from each of these food groups:

Vegetables 3-5 servings
Fruits 2-4 servings
Breads, cereals, rice, and pasta 6-11 servings
Milk, yogurt and cheese 2-3 servings*
Meats, poultry, fish, dried beans and peas, eggs, and nuts 2-3 servings

* People aged 12 through 24 years should have three or more servings daily of foods rich in calcium.

Judith Foulke is a staff writer for FDA Consumer

DHHS Publication No. (FDA) 92-2257

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