- McDonald's -

Another lie....

Posted by: Lars on February 17, 19100 at 10:24:53:

In Reply to: Just the opposite: meat-eating is linked to cancer. posted by MDG on February 16, 19100 at 10:13:14:

There is NO proof whatsoever that meat (itself) causes cancer, heart disease, and diabetes. You can find many studies showing that vegetarians as a group is healthier than all-eaters as a group. But that depends on a lot of things, including smoking habits, obesity, etc. But there isn't any proof that a healthy diet including meat is bad for you. Everything else is a lie!!!

If you look at real scientific studies (taking "other factors" in consideration) you'll find that their are many studies (actually more than showing your views) showing that their is NO significant relationship between meat and mortality. Look at the references below. Also look at my other message about the subject at this site.

So your "study after study... -crap" is nothing else than a bad lie.

One of my references states that: "Most of the supportive evidence in prospective studies for an association between consumption of meat and colorectal cancer comes from the United States rather than Europe. The way in which the meat is cooked and the relation of meat to fruit and salad vegetables in a balanced diet might explain the inconsistent findings."

This supports my (and the worlds leading experts including the most western health departments, for instance FDA. ) opinion that it isn't the meat itself but other factors (including obesity, smoking, etc) that accounts for more deaths among meat-eaters.

Look for instance at the recomendations from U.S. Department of Agriculture and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services below:


What should Americans eat to stay HEALTHY?

These guidelines are designed to help answer this question. They provide advice for healthy Americans age 2 years and over about food choices that promote health and prevent disease. To meet the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, choose a diet with most of the calories from grain products, vegetables, fruits, lowfat milk products, lean meats, fish, poultry, and dry beans. Choose fewer calories from fats andsweets.

What is a healthful diet?

Healthful diets contain the amounts of essential nutrients and calories needed to prevent nutritional deficiencies and excesses. Healthful diets also provide the right balance of carbohydrate, fat, and
protein to reduce risks for chronic diseases, and are a part of a full and productive lifestyle. Such diets are obtained from a variety of foods that are available, affordable, and enjoyable."

You should find other reasons for not eating meat, cause health issues isn't one. You can (and should) include meat in a healthy diet. Look att FDA recomendations above....

// Lars



American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 70, No. 3, 532S-538S, September 1999
Gary E Fraser

Associations between diet and cancer, ischemic heart disease, and all-cause mortality in non-Hispanic white California Seventh-day Adventists

"Thus, among Seventh-day Adventists, vegetarians are healthier than nonvegetarians but this cannot be ascribed only to the absence of meat. "


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 70, No. 2, 221-227, August 1999
Frank B Hu, Meir J Stampfer, JoAnn E Manson, Eric Rimm, Graham A Colditz, Frank E Speizer, Charles H Hennekens and Walter C Willett
From the Departments of Nutrition and Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston; the Channing Laboratory, Boston; and the Division of Preventive Medicine, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston.

Dietary protein and risk of ischemic heart disease in women

"Conclusions: Our data do not support the hypothesis that a high protein intake increases the risk of ischemic heart disease. In contrast, our findings suggest that replacing carbohydrates with protein may be associated with a lower risk of ischemic heart disease. Because a high dietary protein intake is often accompanied by increases in saturated fat and cholesterol intakes, application of these findings to public dietary advice should be cautious. "


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 57, 434-440, Copyright © 1993
AK Kant, A Schatzkin, TB Harris, RG Ziegler and G Block
City University of New York, Queens College, Flushing 11367-0904.

Dietary diversity and subsequent mortality in the First National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey Epidemiologic Follow-up Study

"We examined the relation of dietary diversity to subsequent all-cause mortality by using data from the First National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES I) Epidemiologic Follow-up Study, 1982-1987. The analytic cohort consisted of 4160 men and 6264 women (including 2556 deaths), 25-74 y at baseline (1971-1975). Twenty-four-hour dietary recalls were evaluated for variety among the five major food groups: dairy, meat, grain, fruit, and vegetable, with a dietary diversity score (DDS); consumption of each food group contributed 1 point to a maximum possible DDS of 5. Age-adjusted risk of mortality was inversely related to DDS (P < or = 0.0009) in men and women. The inverse diversity-mortality association was adjusted for potential confounders: education, race, smoking status, and dietary fiber intake; the relative risk of mortality in men and women consuming two or fewer food groups was 1.5 (95% CI 1.2-1.8) and 1.4 (95% CI 1.1-1.9), respectively. In conclusion, diets that omitted several food groups were associated with an increased risk of
mortality. "


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 61, 1351S-1359S, 1995
L Serra-Majem, L Ribas, R Tresserras, J Ngo and L Salleras,
Department of Public Health, University of Barcelona, Spain.

How could changes in diet explain changes in coronary heart disease mortality in Spain? The Spanish paradox

"We review and compare trends in coronary heart disease (CHD) and stroke mortality in Spain from 1966 to 1990 and changes in food consumption at national and regional levels. Since 1976, a decrease in cardiovascular disease (CVD) mortality in males and females has been observed, and standardized CHD mortality rates have fallen. Stroke mortality decreased during the same period. Trends in food consumption show increases in intakes of meat, dairy products, fish, and fruit, but decreases in consumption of olive oil, sugar, and all foods rich in carbohydrates. Although fat and saturated fat intakes increased, these changes were not accompanied by an increase in CHD mortality rates. This paradoxical situation can be explained by expanded access to clinical care, increased consumption of fruit and fish, improved control of hypertension, and a reduction in cigarette smoking. Diet appears to have an important role in this paradox, but it may not be as critical as other factors."


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 48, 739-748, 1988
DA Snowdon
Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.

Animal product consumption and mortality because of all causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists

"This report reviews, contrasts, and illustrates previously published findings from a cohort of 27,529 California Seventh-day Adventist adults who completed questionnaires in 1960 and were followed for mortality between 1960 and 1980. "

"The consumption of meat, eggs, milk, and cheese did not have negative associations with any of the causes of death investigated."


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 70, No. 3, 516S-524S, September 1999
Timothy J Key, Gary E Fraser, Margaret Thorogood, Paul N Appleby, Valerie Beral, Gillian Reeves, Michael L Burr, Jenny Chang-Claude, Rainer Frentzel-Beyme, Jan W Kuzma, Jim Mann and Klim McPherson
From the Imperial Cancer Research Fund, Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Oxford, United Kingdom; the Center for Health Research and the Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, Loma Linda University, CA; the Department of Public Health and Policy, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, London; the Centre for Applied Public Health Medicine, University of Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff, United Kingdom; the Division of Epidemiology, Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum, Heidelberg, Germany; the Bremer Institut für Präventionsforschung und Sozialmedizin, Bremen, Germany; the Department of Human Nutrition, University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand.

Mortality in vegetarians and nonvegetarians: detailed findings from a collaborative analysis of 5 prospective studies

"There were no significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in mortality from cerebrovascular disease, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, or all other causes combined. "


BMJ 1994;309:955 (8 October)
R West
University of Wales College of Medicine, Cardiff CF4 4XN.

Risk of death in meat and non-meat eaters

"Vegetarian volunteers clearly have a low standardised mortality ratio, comparable to that of university teachers and ministers of the church but perhaps no lower than that of similarly health conscious meat eating volunteers. "


BMJ 1997;315:1018 (18 October)
Brian D Cox, University lecturer, Margaret J Whichelow, Senior research associate
Health and Lifestyle Survey, Department of Community Medicine, Institute of Public Health, University of Cambridge, Cambridge CB2 2SR

Frequent consumption of red meat is not risk factor for cancer

"Editor–Headlines such as "Big meat eaters cancer warning" (Daily Mail, 13 September) have appeared in advance of the publication of the Department of Health's report on diet and cancer. A prospective study, however, analysed data from a nationwide random stratified sample of British adults to determine the relation between diet and cancer and found a protective role for fruit and salads but no evidence that frequent consumption of meat is a risk factor for cancer. "

"There were no indications that, when compared with the reference category of eating red meat less than once a week, more frequent consumption of meat was associated with the development of cancer in men or women (1). In contrast, there were significant trends for the relation between increasing frequency of consumption of fruit or salads in winter with a decreasing risk of developing cancer, the association being strongest with salads in men and with fruit in women.

Most of the supportive evidence in prospective studies for an association between consumption of meat and colorectal cancer comes from the United States rather than Europe. The way in which the meat is cooked and the relation of meat to fruit and salad vegetables in a balanced diet might explain the inconsistent findings."


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 70, No. 3, 570S-575S, September 1999
David C Nieman

Physical fitness and vegetarian diets: is there a relation?

"The available evidence supports neither a beneficial nor a detrimental effect of a vegetarian diet on physical performance capacity, especially when carbohydrate intake is controlled for. "


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