- McDonald's -

Response to Prana69

Posted by: Crash ( Australia ) on March 02, 19100 at 11:04:15:

In Reply to: Response to Knievel & Crash posted by Prana69 on February 29, 19100 at 13:58:43:

hello prana69, how are u!

*sigh* OK. The response was not anger. It was frustration in response to the central premise contained in Crash's original posting: that we - the sum of society that consumes McDonalds - are entirely responsible for it's success as a business enterprise because we demand it's product. This issue cannot be broken down to a simple supply and demand equation.

if u read my other message to u, i 'adjusted' what i said, saying that society is not totally to blame but bears equal if not more blame as McDonalds. i don't think maccas should be totally free of any responsibility or accountability.

: Clearly, the success of McDs is due to more than the simple fact that lots of people want to consume it; consider: coercive and deceptive advertising;

who forces people to eat the food! deceptive advertising...like what???all people deceive one another. this sites deceives its viewers that McDonalds is an evil, terrible company. they raise millions of dollars for charity each year, support many other things, sporting teams, clean up australia day. they might do some morally bad things, but that doesn't solely make them an evil, bad company, especially when u weigh up what good they do also. i guess it is a question of what each person perceives as being bad and good. if we fall for this 'trap' of deceptive advertising,then that is our stupid fault. remember that reality shows that businesses are about making money - not doing what is morally right. this might be wrong but it is a fact.

restrictive busines strategy; repression of dissent and suppression of negative information; regressive employment practices; etc. Now, while each of these business practices may be legal to a greater or lesser degree depending on the country in question, their application by McDs and other similar TNCs (including BHP and Exxon as noted in my original post) breaches ethical standards that we, in so called liberal democracies, hold up as the foundation of our society and culture.

in theory we hold up these ethical standards, but in reality??? it is nice to think like this but what is really going on?? if we truly did hold up these values, then why do we allow it to go on. and don't say maccas allow it to go on when if society was against the way they run their business, they could have an affect.

: I am tired of all the hollow rhetoric trotted out by our governments and our heads of business and our opinion leaders re: how great our society is while they turn their backs on the reality (yeah, that's where it's at kids) of what these TNCs are doing to us.

i am tired of all the hollow rhetoric trotted out by the activists re: all the damage these multi-nationals companies do while they turn there back on what is realistically more important to society - jobs - which gets kids off the street, and keeps employment rates down - good for the economy. throwing money into good things, charity, sponsorship, etc, etc. i am not saying who is right or wrong, just saying that this seems to be more important to society then ensuring animals aren't treated cruelly, or ensuring our rainforests are maintained. surely u realise by now that society is selfish and only think for themselves and the current time period. people aren't going to be concerned with maintaining the environment or about animal cruelty when they don't have a job to pay the bills. as i have said money makes the world go round - FACT.

: I think, in some respects, we are arguing a similar point. We, as individuals, are responsible for the society in which we live. Society is only what we make it and allow it to be. But the fact that some individuals in our society gather together in the unbridled pursuit of profit and seek to exploit people and destroy our environment through unprincipled and unethical practices, does not absolve us of our responsibility of respect for our natural environment and fellow human and non-human animals.

in theory your right Prana69, but in reality it doesn't work that way, does it? u might say then why do i keep arguing with u, because i want to point out and show that what u say is nice in fairy land but in reality it is nothing like that. to make a change u must think and act in the world as it is today, not what u hope it should be or think it should be, but what it ACTUALLY IS.

: You two are stuck in a "chicken or the egg" scenario: individuals won't change their perception and values until society says it's the right thing to do. But society can't change until it's individuals decide to make the change. So, what's your choice Knievel/Crash? You gonna sit around waiting for Godot?

first of all, what is a godot? u r probably laughing now but i can live with that!!! it's a vicious circle, that will realistically not result in any change. 'what am i gonna do?" i am happy to do what i gotta do to get through life and what makes me happy, go to work, eat fatty food and if that makes me less human(according to u), then i can live with that (we are all selfish in someway or another).

: The legacy of the 1980s was that greed is good. The legacy of the 1990s is that the pursuit of profit over humanity is the benchmark for success. I am keen to see that the legacy of the 2000s is respect for the earth and it's people. If that's too hippie for you then you are sub-human and I would prefer you didn't come tripping with me anymore.

there is that fantasy world of yours again, prana69. it would be nice, but it won't happen.

: "What experience and history teach is this - that people and governments never have learnt anything from history, or acted upon principles deduced from it". (Georg Hegel)

: It's time for you to learn and to act...

if i see it happening then i'd be happy to eat my words, but until that day which is along, long way away (if at all), keep dreaming prana69. it is all very noble of u to think like this, but being noble doesn't get u far in this world.

look forward to the many more conversations we have!!

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