: in what way??? from what i can tell not much if anything has changed!! although if this is incorrect, then let me know. What has realistically changed from the findings in the McLibel trial?? sure maccas received some bad press during that time and lost sales during that time, so what!!! they now are still making huge money and probably haven't changed their policies, practices, procedures, etc, all that much. why?? because society has forgotten about it which shows they don't really care.
Change requires time. The information being presented to the public has been overwhelmingly one-sided. This site, and related efforts, are an attempt to make available contrary information. That's the point I was referring to.
: : If it wasn't for contrary information put out by opponents of McSpotlight and fast food, you'd probably still be eating Big Macs and thinking that meat came from cows which were raised on pretty meadows and died of old age.
: i do eat it, it tastes better when it is for free - sad...yes it probably is, but i can live with that. it would be nice if what u say in these messages would come true, except the meat eating thing, coz i like my meat!! to most people, they don't care how it got there or what process it went through, they all know where meat comes from - many just don't care.
Look, it took centuries to eliminate slavery from most of the world, and we're not done yet with that struggle. It's taken centuries for women to achieve some equality, and that struggle is far from over. The modern animal rights/vegetarian movement is only 30 years old. You can't change the world overnight.
: : This is an anti-McDonalds website, so OF COURSE the posts here are aimed at McDonalds.
: i understand that this is an anti-McDonalds website. and u can put them down and tell everyone the "truth" about McDonalds all u like. but in reality u are appealing to a person's morals, for them to read this one-sided information and say "maccas are cruel to animals and cruel to the environment, etc, etc, and i will not eat it anymore". but people on this website don't seem to be 'in this world' and realise that not too many people in this world give a shit, about stuff like that, and yes including CEO of big companies (which is sad, i must add), hence the problems in this world today. i would assume that most people have some idea of what goes on "behind the scenes",most people would know that McDonalds is unhealthy food, that unless u incorporate it into a balanced diet and exercise, will probably cause heart attacks. but at the end to the day, they don't give a shit, do they?, cause if they did care about themselves and the environment then they wouldn't support places like maccas. hence i get to my point on this whole issue....put maccas down as much as u like, tell them your facts, tell them what u see as reality, but at the end of the day, this web site isn't going to do shit, or have an affect on hardly anybody, because, people in general just don't care. i know i am repeating myself from other messages but u don't seem to be getting my point. so when i say "what is the point???" i am talking about the point of this website, it is a waste of time because all you are doing is whinging about maccas but would be affecting very little people. i would like to see, the environment maintained for aslong as possible, but that starts with the 'individual'. the big companies don't care, they are just here to make money, (maybe immoral, but its a fact. a fact that this website won't change unless the 'society' changes its attitudes) now u might say that changes will only happen when people like yourselves push for it. true, but more importantly, changes will only happen when, people wake up and realise what is really going on in this world and take individual responsibility for their environment - and that will never happen (or atleast not in the near future) as long as sites like this give society an opportunity to say "it is not my fault the world is falling apart, it is the big companies". so that is why i say "wake up out of your fantasy world" because this website isn't changing and won't change shit. now before anyone comments, i am not absolving maccas of their duty as a company, but again, realistically, they don't care, they are making shit loads of money, all legally, i assume. and will not change their ways on the basis of moral value. they will only change when their consumers tell them to change. this is a fact which people don't seem to realise. so why don't u take up the challenge of focussing on society and the individuals to make a difference because the companies won't do shit as long as they make shit loads of money. as they say money makes the world go round.
Well, nothing will change with a defeatist attitude like that. You'd be surprised, though, at the power of ideas. I can well imagine a Southern slaveholder telling his slaves that black people would never be free. And vote? Ha!
You can choose to do nothing, but don't criticize other people for trying to make this a better world.
: : Don't complain about a website doing what it was created to do.
: firstly, why not!! i am complaining about a website that is doing nothing and having no or very little affect on anything because there focus isn't on the right track (in my opinion)
: secondly, speaking of complaining, read some of these messages!! complaining about something that won't change!! is that what this website is about?? complaining/blaming someone that won't have any affect or change.
I became a committed vegetarian because I read one book, Animal Liberation. Don't be so quick to say that information cannot change people. That's demonstrably wrong.
: : This website exists to educate people about McDonalds in particular, and fast food and meat in general, so that they can one day be as well-informed as you (though hopefully less scornful of those who haven't yet learned what you had the privilege of learning first).
: i'm not well-informed (but thankyou for the compliment), highly educated or anything like that. what i know is what most other people know from media, etc,and common sense and like most others, i don't do anything about it. why??? because i am aware (unlike some people) that society doesn't care about themself or the environment, hence any effort is futile until people start to wake up and see what is happening around them.
And just how do you expect them to wake up if they're not told the other side of the story?
: : People like crack cocaine, too. Should we therefore absolve those who make it available to them from any responsibility? McDonalds not only knowingly makes and sells unhealthy food, it goes out of its way to sell it to children. How about some accountability on the people supplying the garbage?
: as long as it's legal, what does it matter?? what about what is morally right, u might ask!!! again generally people don't have too many morals!! crack cocaine is a little different, isn't it?? McDonalds supplies a legal product that millions of people want. what is wrong with that??
Nothing...unless you care about your environment, or find animal abuse wrong, or don't think children should be encouraged to eat unhealthy food. Why are you so upset that people who care about these issues have chosen to speak out about them? Are you authoritarian at heart?
: car yards sell a product which knowingly pollutes the environment.
: paper and furniture companies sell a product which comes from trees.
: power plants produce power which in the process heavily pollutes the environment.
: farmers sell a product which knowingly will be slaughtered.
: unfortunately, if all these people were running there business morally, they would be out of business. business is not about doing what is right, it is about making money. this from your point of view seems to be wrong, but regardless whether it is wrong or right, IT IS A FACT!! and will never change.
Not with that attitude, it won't.
: : As I said above, THIS IS AN ANTI-MCDONALDS WEB SITE! Why are you then surprised that people here criticize McDonalds?
: i am not surprised that people criticize McDonalds, i just can't see the point of it all - by criticizing McDonalds, you are doing shit to change anything at all, hence this site is a waste of time except for people to complain and criticize. not only that, the reason i started posting messages was because i believed that the angle that everyone took in there messages was wrong. every one was blaming maccas entirely, and i decided to pose an alternative view that society is just as much if not more to blame because they make maccas what they are.
Well, I'll agree these efforts seem to be lost on you. But others read this sight.
: : However, I try to minimize these things wherever possible.
: maybe maccas tries to minimize the things that they do that harm the environment? keeping in mind the reality has it that business is about making money. but how can u minimize what u do when there is such a huge pressure to deliver?
Don't make me laugh. If they wanted to, they could stop selling meat.
: : and lobby my political leaders to regulate those areas where they can (e.g. my toilet does not flush directly into the ocean -- the effluence goes to a waste treatment facility first), and fund research to minimize or eliminate the harm our society inflicts on the world.
: well good for u, u should feel satisfied with yourself (no i am not being a smart arse, i am being genuine) but until people start to think like yourself and do what they can, then this society will never change, even if there are sights like this. reality shows that people are genuinely satisfied with the way they live, waste, destroying the environment,etc, etc, which is the whole problem.
Again, how will people think for themselves if they're only given one side of the story?
: : Because a healthy vegetarian diet is a reality, killing animals for food is bad.
: reality for who? everyone?
Yes, if they choose it.
:what if people don't want to become vegetarians, does this make them bad people?
I and other vegetarians can only promote vegetarianism and encourage others to take it up. Whether or not people are "bad" for refusing to become vegetarians is a matter for their own conscience to decide.
: : However, a bad situation is made absolutely horrendous by the institutional cruelty of modern factory farming. Would I still object to eating meat if animals were raised on pleasant pastures or fields and killed mercifully, rather than raised in boxes and killed brutally? Yes, but I'd be much, much less disturbed by the whole thing. It's the difference between being tortured to death, and a quick, painless death. Both end badly, but which would you prefer?
: i agree totally with what u just said, but at the same time, as long as money makes the world go round, this will always happen. it doesn't make it right, but it makes it a fact. it is something that won't change by facts that show animals are treated cruelly. it is not cost affective, which as we should know is what running a business is about - keeping costs low.
Don't be such a pessimist. In the relatively few short years that the animal rights movement has been around, many companies have, for example, switched to cruelty free testing. I'll promise you this: nothing changes on its own.
: : : hypothetically speaking, what would u suggest???
: : An immediate end to factory farms. An immediate end to legal cruelty to animals. An intelligently carried-out conversion to world vegetarianism.
: lets be realistic, please, when i said hypothetically, i also meant realistically. what about people who don't want to become vegetarians, would they have a choice??? what about this wonderful thing called freedom of choice. you're talking about something that is not going to happen. that is another thing, some people here suggest the most unrealistic things that are just out of this world. i would like to see attainable, realistic suggestions.
It's all attainable and realistic, though it may take a long time. Have you no faith in the human race?
: McSpotlight: First off, if McDonald's really cared enough about the environment, they would stop serving meat; as they are the #1 user of meat in the world and meat production is one of the two most damaging industrial processes in the world (along with oil production).
: Secondly, this site was started with the aim of stopping McDonald's issuing any more lawsuits against people who dared to criticize them - by making all of the information they tried to suppress public domain.