- McLibel -

Re: So who are the real winners?

Posted by: PAUL NICHOLLS ( Lawyer, UK ) on June 20, 1997 at 14:09:12:

In Reply to: Re: So who are the real winners? posted by erskine on June 20, 1997 at 12:40:38:

: : Who, you may ask are the real winners?

: : Mr Justice Bell gave Judgment for McDonalds and dismised the Defendants claim.

: On major points the Judge found for the defendants. Not only this but (from reading the judgement I'd expect you to know this) he used the judgement to make what amount to some pretty damning statements re: McDonald's. Even McDoanld's own press conference which was shown on TV last night had MrBigMac UK saying that they had problems with certain sections of the judgement.

: To quote Bell direct:

: "In my JUDGEMENT a diet high in fat (including saturated fat) and animal products, and low in fibre, sustained over very many years, probably does lead to a very real risk of heart disease in due course."

: Previous to this he had said of McDonald's food that:

: "At the material time of publication of the leaflet between September 1987, and September 1990, McDonald's food was high in fat (including saturated fat) and salt (sodium) and animal products and it has continued to be so. It was low in fibre at the material time of publication of the leaflet ..."

: McDonald's food can kill you - infer what you like but reading into his judgement states this. What you seem to want to do is look for some football scoreline:

: McD - 7 McLibel - 2

: welll matey life just ain't that simple and when trying to make head or tail of ANY legal decision, document you have to be able to analyse it fully.

: : Dave Morris and Helen Steel were Ordered to pay damages and spent two and a half years in Court.Funny victory.

: Helen and Dave said 'Can't pay, won't pay' - funny victory for McD! McDonald's lost on what is thier most important public image - they do exploit kids through advertising - I wonder what would happen if McD were forced to pull ALL their ads from daytime TV, if they were forced to pull all those ridiculous toy promotions and if they were forced to give Ronald the boot - how long do you think they would last? McD lost on their most prized possession - their own image: they manipulate kids
: with it and sell a diet likely to damage your health with it. Funny fucking victory for McD!!!!!!
-ah yes, but, Erskine the kids keep coming back don't they?

Mc Donalds, with respect did say they wouldn't bother pursuing them for Judgment but will certainly make any other person think twice (as you would expect) at looking to promote their ideas in a way that is a civil wrong. 'Helen and Dave' say "can't pay won't pay" - so teaching kids to act in an uncivil and frankly unlawful way is right?

To ignore the authority of the Court is something you put your stamp to is it?

: : I've got no truck with McDonalds and don't personaly like their food, but, by the same token I believe in free speech as long as it's within the confines of the law.Messrs Morris and Steel have factually been found to have been in breach of that.

: : A 45 page Judgment addresses all of the FACTS, not silly eupanisms entered on this web site by people who can't be bothered to follow the facts that are there to be read.

: : McDonalds legal fees are a tiny fraction of the massive amount they spend on advertising - do you really think they care they've lost the equivalent of 5,434,782 Big Macs?

: No but they sure as hell care that they have lost the sections that have lost.

I accept that they were concerned and good luck to the concerns - hopefully the public at large will be protected then, at least it shows the Court thought the Judgment through carefully, and, with respect Erskine coming second in a two horse race isn't that good is it?!?

: : So who are the real Winners? Take a guess and let me know if you've got a spare 10,000,000.00 I'd be more than happy to represent you !!!!

: : In 10 years time many of you will be saying Dave and Helen who? and you'll be saying it over a chicken burger at your latest McDonalds I bet!!!

: This is simply ridiculous - it is not re: Helen and Dave (if you go looking for figureheads then you'll find them - this case, trial was all about two people that McD took to court, it doesn't matter who the people are that are trying to get an alternate viewpoint across - it is the campaign that is important) let's go back 10 years, 1987 and look there is the anti-McD campaign, let's go even further back to the early eighties and there again is the anti-McD campaign ... let's see what's happened in the meantime - this anti-McD campaign (very loosely called a campaign as it is not co-ordinated in the traditional sense) has spread worldwide - it manifests itself across the globe. In Britain there will be a Victory Day of Action tomorrow - over 3.5 million leaflets will have been handed out by then .... no I don't think people will remember 'Helen and Dave ' as if they are continous leaders of some movement - this is the strength of the campaign against McD - it is something that is dynamic and self contained without the need for leaders - how many other campaigns can you identify that has no real co-ordinating structure and no real leaders.

I adopt your argument, where have the protests of the last X years got them? Nowhere, if you argue that then answer the simple question as to why McD's can be found in virtually every city in the world and continue to grow. For goodness sake don't fight my corner!
: So how you can say that all this is going to disappear is stupifying - the momentum is against McD in terms of campaigning against them (I make no silly statements re: smashing them to bits). The worldwide protests are growing and tho' the likelihood is that there will be more McD outlets in 10 years and you probably will be in there eating your McNuggets with more and more people - there will be more and more people dying from heart diseases and more and more people suffering from a damaged health. Also there will be more and more people who will NOT be eating at McD - just as parents traditionally indoctrinate their kids in favour of meat, the increasing population of non-meat eaters will combat this with a greater awareness concernign meat and dairy products.

I can see your biased views now, you're a vegetarian!

I frankly couldn't give monkeys about the case but I think it has interesting angles, I'm not biased just an educated cynic.
: : In 10 years time the real winners will have retired from legal practice spending their legal fees on something I'm sure won't bear any resemblance to a quarter pounder!

: .... sad, sad very sad - they'll have retired and be playing tennis at the country club, with jeff and wilma - be holding soirees for associates and examining their investements closely in the FT - and along the way have their heart bypass, pacemaker installed, plastic surgery to get those hips under control, send Jeff Jnr to counselling and try to get Wilma Jnr to eat some food - even McD food. Meanwhile the divorce papers will in the post and some serious bithchin' will be commence over that $10,000,000.

: This end bit may sound like Hollywood but then you were talking re: science fiction throughout most of your message.

Happy in the knowledge they don't have to walk around having to declare to all credit agencies that they have one hell of a Judgment hanging over them for life.

Good to chat to someone who's thought it through.

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